1. #1

    Let's build a new loot system!

    In an effort of potential futility, I figured that I could stop bitching and at least attempt to do something.

    The goal of the thread is to try to come up with a decent build of a desired loot system, given both reason and sanity, and then take it over to the blizzard forms in the attempt to generate enough attention to Blizzard. Will it work? Maybe. Can we try? Certainly.

    The rough idea I have comes from the TBC/Wrath design only trying to limit what made it sort of "bad."

    First, JP
    I think that JP should be kept around and tweaked for both Normal Dungeons, Heroics, and Scenarios. The numbers would be rough and actually something Blizzard would have to tackle to balance.

    Things to spend JP on
    -Entry level raiding gear for T14
    -Consumables and Crafting Items
    -Upgrading gear levels

    Second, VP
    As with JP, I too think this is a useful system to keep although not having it be the end all be all. I believe that VP should potentially only be rewarded from the last boss of a Heroic (perhaps in replacement of JP), and from Raid bosses.

    Things to spend VP on remain as
    -Consumables and Crafting Items
    -Upgrading ALL raid level gear.

    Tier Raid Badges
    Tier Raid Badges should be dropped from all bosses but tied to the boss difficulty, ie LFR, 10man, and 25man. Heroic kills should still drop badges via their base format be it 10 or 25 man.

    Raid Badges should be spent on
    -A selection of raiding gear
    -A conversion to JP or Vp
    -Other Tier raiding badges (this one is tough)

    The hardest part of all of this comes from moving from one Teir to another and avoiding the argument of T14 badges being converted at all to T15 for example. I understand that there is a negative of people "feeling" forced to then keep doing T14 each week for badges in order to convert to T15 and stay a head of the game. That's one that should be taken on by options and will probably be the meat of the discussion.

    So... start?

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,020
    The loot system can probbaly be improved.

    Ideas?
    Valor and Conquest; Honor and Justice could be merged into one. Given the relative ease of switching between them, and the desire to ease the barrier of entry between PvE and PvP and vice versa there doesn't seem to be much need for different currencies. Granted, they have different caps, and require participation in the events to earn that increased cap.

    Increase the VP/JP rewards from existing raids and dungeons. Makes them worth running at the costs of generating a scenario where players may skip hated instances if they have the necessary gear or have them ruin out of things to do in game.

    Make the LFR individual loot system standard across all raid sizes and difficulties, but remove the shared lockout. Loot control can be re-established at the cost of putting the lockout back for that week.

    Allow tier tokens to be purchased via emblems. Bosses would drop between 1-3 such emblems instead of or as well as gold. Each difficulty would have its own type of emblem/badge which would be used to purchase the appropriate armor token. You'd need to decide upon the desired balance of guaranteed gearing vs RNG longevity and excitement. Do you want guaranteed gearing to provide a possible top up of 1 or 2 pieces or an entire set? You'd also need to decide if other bossd ropped gear was purchasable....special items (e.g weapons) would not be

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2012-12-28 at 05:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Well to avoid the "I've gone 6 weeks with no loot in LFR" they could make it so the chance of getting loot goes up after each boss until you win something and then it drops and starts over.

    First internal roll - 15% (I think that is what they have said it is)
    Second - 18-20%

    Up to let's say 40-50% Then when you win something it goes back down to 15%

    I have't won anything in about 15 rolls - that does include my coins so with my system I would have a good chance now...lol

    The increases could even be smaller say only 1 or 2% so that it wouldn't be too "loot pinata" but would still give people with horrible RNG luck an increasing chance to get something and would probably ease some of the complaints

  4. #4
    I'd make it as such system.

    Scenarios, 5-men and dailies reward Emblems of Justice (I like Emblems as they are more tangible than points, and they have no hard cap), which could be used for:
    - Buying 5-men level gear.
    - Buying trade goods (including Ironpaw tokens, gems and flasks).
    - Buying BoA rep tokens, to increase some faction standing (on use: +X amount of rep).
    - Inter-tradeable with Honor Points.

    Completion of LFR, daily (or 1 of 7 weekly) dungeons, killing raid boss would yield Emblems of Valor, which could be used for:
    - Buying normal raid-quality gear.
    - Acquiring Charms.
    - Inter-tradeable with Conquest Points.

    Additionally, LFR and raids would drop [LFR][Normal][Heroic] Emblems of Triumph, which could be used for:
    - Buying raid boss and trash drops after you unlocked vendor (which is done by killing last raid boss while being on special raid quest).
    - Buying trade goods (at better return than JP).

    Charms are changed to work, so instead of having chance to award gear, they have 100% chance to award you with some trade goods, BoA rep tokens, very small chance for skyshard.

    Ilvl upgrade to be moved to crafting. Depending on type of gear to equip, it is to involve tailoring, leatherworking or blacksmithing. Mats for each upgrade include Motes of Harmony and raid boss drops, like Blood Spirit, if you want to upgrade raid item. Upgrading PvP gear would require more Motes of Harmony and no raid drops.

    Each time new raid tier releases, all Emblems of Valor and Triumph are converted into Emblems of Justice in order to avoid "pre-hoarding", but not penalizing for having too many of them.

  5. #5
    I love MoP's loot system and I wouldn't want them to change a damn thing about it. I don't feel like I'm competing for gear anymore which is a wonderful thing. I wouldn't mind adding a little something to the current system though. Something along the lines of "If you ran a specific dungeon X amount of times and never received the item you were trying to get, then you get it."

    I would also like to see them try a system similar to this in battlegrounds. On a bad night it sometimes seems impossible to get a win to finish that daily. I think it'd be cool if you ran...let's say 4 BGs, lost all of them, they should finally just give you the damn win. I've run hundreds upon hundreds of BGs in my day and I know they can be very streaky at times. I know I've had streaks where I've won 8+ in a row as well as streaks where i lost 8+ in a row. This can be incredibly frustrating when you're on a bad streak. Because of the "bad luck" streaks, completing the daily BG is sometimes 10x harder than completing the daily heroic, which is just silly.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Radoria View Post
    I love MoP's loot system and I wouldn't want them to change a damn thing about it. I don't feel like I'm competing for gear anymore which is a wonderful thing. I wouldn't mind adding a little something to the current system though. Something along the lines of "If you ran a specific dungeon X amount of times and never received the item you were trying to get, then you get it."

    I would also like to see them try a system similar to this in battlegrounds. On a bad night it sometimes seems impossible to get a win to finish that daily. I think it'd be cool if you ran...let's say 4 BGs, lost all of them, they should finally just give you the damn win. I've run hundreds upon hundreds of BGs in my day and I know they can be very streaky at times. I know I've had streaks where I've won 8+ in a row as well as streaks where i lost 8+ in a row. This can be incredibly frustrating when you're on a bad streak. Because of the "bad luck" streaks, completing the daily BG is sometimes 10x harder than completing the daily heroic, which is just silly.
    Here's the thing. I'm not trying to argue with you. But I have to ask if the changes proposed would actually effect you or just give you more options? I mean, by your own account, from the PvE side your not brought down, so by that account equally if I feel PvP is doing fine then it shouldn't changed even though you're not happy and it wouldn't actually negatively impact me?

    I know you didn't really go that far, just trying to show the lines.

    I agree that PvP needs an update but unfortunately I don't know enough to really tackle that. The problem you presented is pretty frustrating and that's what I'm aiming to actually discuss, ways to limit those frustration so that there is always as sense of actual progress forward.

  7. #7
    Obsolete LFR needs to have at most a one day lockout, ideally no lockout. Since they want you to gear through LFR to be geared for subsequent tiers, being held at the mercy of RNG one week at a time will make it nearly impossible to reliably gear alts/replacements/new raiders. The problem was always the time involved; you shouldn't have to spend a month waiting for drops to get a replacement geared to progress. When t15 comes out all t14 stuff should be either off lockout for loot or have a one day lockout, to be run as an alternative to heroic dungeons in past expansions that bridged the gap, and they can reward considerably less valors if daily lockout, or none at all for no lockout.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The loot system can probbaly be improved.

    Ideas?
    Valor and Conquest; Honor and Justice could be merged into one. Given the relative ease of switching between them, and the desire to ease the barrier of entry between PvE and PvP and vice versa there doesn't seem to be much need for different currencies. Granted, they have different caps, and require participation in the events to earn that increased cap.

    Increase the VP/JP rewards from existing raids and dungeons. Makes them worth running at the costs of generating a scenario where players may skip hated instances if they have the necessary gear or have them ruin out of things to do in game.

    Make the LFR individual loot system standard across all raid sizes and difficulties, but remove the shared lockout. Loot control can be re-established at the cost of putting the lockout back for that week.

    Allow tier tokens to be purchased via VP. You'd need to decide upon the desired balance of guaranteed gearing vs RNG longevity and excitement. Do you want guarnatted gearing to provide a posisble top up of 1 or 2 pieces or an entire set? You'd also need to decide if other bossd ropped gear was purchasable....special items (e.g weapons) would not be

    EJL
    Rofl,

    WoW is setup like Casino's.

    Make your waste the more time possible (as oppose to money) so that you keep your subscription going the longest possible.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,020
    Quote Originally Posted by ipaq View Post
    Rofl,

    WoW is setup like Casino's.

    Make your waste the more time possible (as oppose to money) so that you keep your subscription going the longest possible.
    Which is good in some ways, bad in others. Hence the suggestion to allow the tier pieces to be purchased via VP; you get something from the run that is something a little more valuable to many players than an offset piece - the knowledge that you will be able to buy the piece you want, even if it deosn't drop. The question then would be if you want to set the reward so you can buy one teir piece over the lfetime of a raid, or whether you get enough VP to buy a full set or somewhere in between. Signature pieces - such as Deathwings weapons and improved armor/trinkets - would continue to drop from the boss only.

    Although, specialised token drops attuned to the appropriate difficulty would be more fitting than VP (above post amended)

    With this system, you'd get the longevity and feeling of unwrapping a gift Blizzard want, without the frustration of yet another bad roll.

    EJL

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Obsolete LFR needs to have at most a one day lockout, ideally no lockout. Since they want you to gear through LFR to be geared for subsequent tiers, being held at the mercy of RNG one week at a time will make it nearly impossible to reliably gear alts/replacements/new raiders. The problem was always the time involved; you shouldn't have to spend a month waiting for drops to get a replacement geared to progress. When t15 comes out all t14 stuff should be either off lockout for loot or have a one day lockout, to be run as an alternative to heroic dungeons in past expansions that bridged the gap, and they can reward considerably less valors if daily lockout, or none at all for no lockout.
    I like this system a lot for the next tier. It makes a lot of sense, because then people will be sitting around in LFR for months trying to get geared up if they leave it as is.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

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