remove upgrade system

[Deleted]

no the problem is you spend 750 vp and get 4 armor stat increase and ilvl thats nothing you cant even call that an upgrade on rings and trinkets it works some better but still the word upgrade is ...... call is spend VP

And buying a new item for a slot, 8 itlvls higher than your current item is what? Not spending VP?

Oh wait...

[Condemner]

Well you said it yourself...the upgrade is minute...4 item levels. If you don't want to do it then just don't. It's not going to make or break your raid.

I do think that using the upgrade system as a justification for not nerfing raids is kind of silly though...I mean...even if your entire raid is upgrading every week, which they're not, those 4 item levels on every person isn't going to have as much as an impact as the old blanket raid nerfs/player buffs they used to do.

Except when the average ilivl of your whole raiding group gone up like 4 points. Then it sure is making a difference.

[Icaras]

My problem with this system is if you don't acquire upgrades, by the time the next tier comes out your entire raid group is going to be 8 item levels lower than they would be otherwise, which can make a huge difference, obviously the new raid will drop higher item level gear, but unless you can replace an entire non upgraded raid set in the first normal lockout, then this is going to be the standard for any serious progression guild. Just another commitment like dailies intended to keep you logging on each day up until the next patch is released.

And? The raids won't be tuned expecting for a team with every slot fully upgraded. If you've managed a few it'll be a nice bonus, but having no upgraded items won't be a disadvantage because, as Blizz have said themselves...you're not INTENDED to be able to fully upgrade every slot. And even if you did manage, your 1st drop in the new raid will be better anyway (OR your 1st item next week after you've unlocked heroic mode will be, for some, he).

As for "Just another commitment like dailies intended to keep you logging on each day up until the next patch is released." chances are you probably log in every day anyway, weather it be alts or just to farm up some raid mats. They know they have us raiders, they don't need to bother "tricking" us into continuing to play.

Again, like with dailies, people need to realise that just because something is there doesn't mean you're "forced" or "have to" use it. It means you CAN use it if you WANT TOO.

[Tsuna]

Only problem I have with the upgrade system is that it costs so much valor. I wish they either increase the amount valor you can hold, or lower the amount each upgrade takes. Having to upgrade non BiS items because you hit the 3k valor cap sucks.

Right here. The problem isn't the upgrade system, but the requirement to use it or spend vp elsewhere or waste vp completely. Remove the vp and jp caps, convert vp down to jp on new raid patch, I'd be a happy camper.

[Raqubor]

I really like the upgrade system at lower ilvl.

For example I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what to main in mop and I played a lot of alts, now I'm waaaaaaaaaaay behind on the gear curve, and it hurts (pvp). Decided on a rogue (no I'm not insane). *panda ninja girl for the win*
I got all the honor items I needed, so till I unlock pvp weapons and get more conquest gear in all the slots, I can use my spare honor (which is now 100%) to upgrade the gear I have and keep making myself stronger.

What happens when I get all conquest gear? I can still make myself stronger by upgrading! Now the journey does not stop, and blizz gave us a great way to keep progressing.

The downside of this? Take a fresh character in crafted pvp gear and a guy in fully upgraded conquest with T2 pvp weapons... yeah that's ugly. You can get blown up in seconds.

As with all new features, Blizz will balance and refine it in the coming patches.

[noepeen]

Until now, I was okay with everything Blizzard did and always found it wierd when people quit raiding due to a new mechanic.

This tier, for the first time, I raided in a "between world 30-90 " guild and I really enjoyed it up to the point when 5.1 hit.
I was okay with doing a few dailys for the tokens. But now I would have to do LFR and random heroics, which I really do not enjoy.
Neither do I need any loot from LFR. Our guild obviously switches raiders (especially healers) out if they don't need loot from a certain encounter.

So, because I've been quite lucky before 5.1, I saw approx. 5-6 bosses a week, which equals ~150-180 VP a week.
If I now count in the ~45 dailies I do in one week with 5 VP each, I have around 400 VP and have to get another 600 VP in LFR/dungeons/dailies.

It's not that I would be to lazy to do that, but I really don't have any interest in spending 4-5 hours extra a week for 4 months until the next raid releases
(It's not getting better from there on, if they don't change it, enjoy having to spend those extra hours until the end of wow).

To sum up my point, I quit raiding due to this feature even tho I really enjoyed MoP raiding =(

[Deepsidedj]

Blizz gives players something to do? How dare they? I want to AFK !!!!

[Deleted]

Until now, I was okay with everything Blizzard did and always found it wierd when people quit raiding due to a new mechanic.

This tier, for the first time, I raided in a "between world 30-90 " guild and I really enjoyed it up to the point when 5.1 hit.
I was okay with doing a few dailys for the tokens. But now I would have to do LFR and random heroics, which I really do not enjoy.
Neither do I need any loot from LFR. Our guild obviously switches raiders (especially healers) out if they don't need loot from a certain encounter.

So, because I've been quite lucky before 5.1, I saw approx. 5-6 bosses a week, which equals ~150-180 VP a week.
If I now count in the ~45 dailies I do in one week with 5 VP each, I have around 400 VP and have to get another 600 VP in LFR/dungeons/dailies.

It's not that I would be to lazy to do that, but I really don't have any interest in spending 4-5 hours extra a week for 4 months until the next raid releases
(It's not getting better from there on, if they don't change it, enjoy having to spend those extra hours until the end of wow).

To sum up my point, I quit raiding due to this feature even tho I really enjoyed MoP raiding =(

Well, if you play in a top dog guild, you should consider Challenge modes to get your VP. Daily is 85+80= 165 VP for 15 mins work average. Each gold is 85 VP more for a 10-12 mins (do the short ones, or the ones people on your guild are missing a gold). This week I had it capped before I stepped on our first raid of the save.

[noepeen]

Well, if you play in a top dog guild, you should consider Challenge modes to get your VP. Daily is 85+80= 165 VP for 15 mins work average. Each gold is 85 VP more for a 10-12 mins (do the short ones, or the ones people on your guild are missing a gold). This week I had it capped before I stepped on our first raid of the save.

I have to agree, I actually really like challenge modes, but our guild groups only wanted to do them over the holidays to get all gold runs
(only managed 5 on 25+26 because one xrealm guy had to raid 2nd day.) But it's definitely the least retarded way to cap out =).
I don't like the upgrade feature anyway, it's artificial content and in PvP, you have zero possibility to catch up once you are behind and can't compete
seriously in high brackets (not that I would, but it's pretty obvious if you follow high rated communities and you just can't disagree with this.)

[MasterHamster]

It's a good system, but I hope they'll adjust the prices a bit...

[gamingmuscle]

no the problem is you spend 750 vp and get 4 armor stat increase and ilvl thats nothing you cant even call that an upgrade on rings and trinkets it works some better but still the word upgrade is ...... call is spend VP

That is technically still an upgrade. LOL you just think it's to expensive.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

The purpose is to end the days of heroic nerfs.

Instead of Blizz nerfing content over time, we upgrade our gear over time.

[Saphyron]

I like the system adds extra progress for those of us who are EXTREMELY unlucky with loot.

Also I have a healthy mix of valor income every week

450 valor from LFR
30-60 Valor per day from dailies
400+ valor each week from raids
Rest is some heroics with guild or random scenarios

I do this with 2 chars each week.

[ZeroEdgeir]

Raid content is NOT gonna be balanced around everyone having perfectly upgraded gear. It's mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to do that, since it would talk just short of half a YEAR to upgrade every slot (22,500 VP (22.5 weeks) for a 2H user, 24,000 VP (24 weeks) for a MH/OH or DW user). So yes, it's optional. It's a way, as Icaras explained already, to cover for a bad week when you got nothing else you CAN spend VP on, and are about to earn VP beyond the 3000 cap, and still make a bit of an improvement to your character's overall power.

Yes, it is a 4 ilevel upgrade per upgrade, 8 as a total whole. Given it is 13 ilevels between each tier (LFR > Normal > Heroic), that means for 1500 VP, you get to make up 2/3 of that difference in that slot. So, if instead you had something from VP to still buy, and it cost you either 1750 VP or 2250 VP (yes, there is 3 slots that are only 1250, I know) for a 13 ilevel upgrade, that is fine, but an 8 ilevel improvement for an item you may not be replacing soon (see: Relic of Yu'lon/Xuen/Chi'ji/Niuzao, for example...) is not worth it? Spending VP to replace a piece of gear is good, but spending VP to make gear better is bad? Thinking you might be missing the point here...

When the next tier comes out, they can't gate Normal T15 behind having Heroic T14 gear (or close to it with upgrades), or they instantly cause a massive segregation and make LFR "mandatory". And as long as LFR doesn't award gear higher than Normal of the last tier, it won't ever be seen as mandatory from now on either (though some will argue about it for different trinkets and tier set...).

[Deleted]

If it wasn't for upgrades my main would have no use for valor anymore and my alt wouldn't have access to 491 weapons.

Both the valor cost and cap are fine.

[Fyersing]

If it wasn't for upgrades my main would have no use for valor anymore and my alt wouldn't have access to 491 weapons.

Both the valor cost and cap are fine.

The cost is fine, certainly, it's the accumulation that is lacking. I'm still trying to fully grasp why removing the full bonus from the first (insert number) heroic dungeons was necessary. They claim it was because more people did them once a day, yet under the old model doing them once a day or all in one day was possible. Everyone got their particular fix. With the new model, only the people who play daily are rewarded amply.

[kingriku]

Until now, I was okay with everything Blizzard did and always found it wierd when people quit raiding due to a new mechanic.

This tier, for the first time, I raided in a "between world 30-90 " guild and I really enjoyed it up to the point when 5.1 hit.
I was okay with doing a few dailys for the tokens. But now I would have to do LFR and random heroics, which I really do not enjoy.
Neither do I need any loot from LFR. Our guild obviously switches raiders (especially healers) out if they don't need loot from a certain encounter.

So, because I've been quite lucky before 5.1, I saw approx. 5-6 bosses a week, which equals ~150-180 VP a week.
If I now count in the ~45 dailies I do in one week with 5 VP each, I have around 400 VP and have to get another 600 VP in LFR/dungeons/dailies.

It's not that I would be to lazy to do that, but I really don't have any interest in spending 4-5 hours extra a week for 4 months until the next raid releases
(It's not getting better from there on, if they don't change it, enjoy having to spend those extra hours until the end of wow).

To sum up my point, I quit raiding due to this feature even tho I really enjoyed MoP raiding =(

Why dont you just join a guild that doesn't switch raiders out and raid tons of bosses everyweek ?

Also, you could just focus on upgrades and not pay attention to Valor, i mean i dont even do dailies or heroics and im a happy raider.

[Dvaldin]

It's interesting that one of the more recent blue posts agreed that their gear system, specifically regarding reforging, was too complicated. And, really, it is. The whole shim, sham and kabobble.

1- Get a better piece of gear.
2- Gem it.
3- Enchant it.
4- Reforge it based on calculations that involve, what is it-11?, other pieces of gear.
5- Calculate which piece of gear is better to upgrade with your points.

That's quite a bit of work for one piece of gear, but, personally speaking, I find it enjoyable. But then again, I'm a sick, sick person.

[TheWindWalker]

It's fantastic for us that aren't likely to be farming normal Shek'zeer and ToES anytime soon and want to get as much damage/healing out of their setup as possible.

[Lushious]

I like this system, I think it's great even. But I would not mind if A: the cost could be reduced to say 400-500 Valor per upgrade, or B: we could get an increased valor cap and an increased speed in valor gain because of increased cap.

Just to make upgrading you gear a little faster and make it a little more competitive with buying Valor gear