1. #1
    Dreadlord
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    [Guide] Malzahar - The Terrificly Malefic Prophet

    Hey guys,

    I've written a guide on Malzahar for all people who'd like to try him.
    I've made the guide just only today and already overhauled it 2 times.
    It looks really nice now though.

    http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...prophet-282442

    If you have any questions, remarks or suggestions, you can post them there or here.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Spelling errors in guide's title give a really bad impression. ;)
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not illegal to express."

  3. #3
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Spelling errors in guide's title give a really bad impression.
    I guess you saw something I didn't...
    I'm not a native speaker, did I spell terrific wrong?

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    "Terrifically" or "terrifying", depends on whether you want to say something along the lines of "very"/"awesome(ly?)" or "scary". Word "terrificly" does not exist.
    Also, I'm not a native speaker either. :P
    Last edited by Caine; 2012-12-28 at 02:16 PM.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not illegal to express."

  5. #5
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insarius View Post
    I've made the guide just only today and already overhauled it 2 times.
    It looks really nice now though.
    A few things:

    1) If you already overhauled it twice, perhaps it would've been a good idea to think things through first before posting them.
    2) I care less about it looking nice than the content being worth my while. Looks help when it comes to taking in the content, but it's hardly a selling point.

    On to the guide:

    You mention Athene's Holy Grail on the 'ideal' carry. Yet don't put it in Early/Mid game. It's largely irrelevant as 6th item. Your Mid game build has 4 full build items. Likely, you will not have those around level 7-12 (which, essentially, will be Mid game).

    If you want people to give you credence despite not being a high ranked player, you might want to explain what you mean by Malz being your 'best champion'.

    Edited with help by readers, they make valid points you know!
    Don't. Ever. Do. This.

    These runes have been changed in order to better reflect what other players suggest, and I stand corrected.
    I took the Magic Resist runes because 90% of the time, we'll be fighting mages in mid.
    Magic Penetration is a stat which makes sure that when a skill says it'll deal 500 damage, it'll actually deal 500 damage.
    Only if your Magic Penetration is enough to nullify their resist, which early game, is very possible.
    MDefs in yellow are inefficient. Explain why you take them there. If you had to be corrected, that takes away from the credibility of your guide. Additionally, what you say about Mpen is mostly bullshit.

    Items:
    Time to rewrite this part completely.
    Do so before presenting the guide.

    You did not mention going into lane with 3 casts for an instant Voidling on your next cast. Missing such basics gives me little confidence.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    You did not mention going into lane with 3 casts for an instant Voidling on your next cast. Missing such basics gives me little confidence.
    Just gonna reply to this part - instant Voidling is not really all that great of an idea, and also impossible to pull off with his skill order(E>Q>E>whateva).

    Voidling on the first Q you harass with(If you took Q first, which is generally a better choice than E) is just going to push your lane prematurely and expose you way too much since you can't make it reliably stay on the enemy with E.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not illegal to express."

  7. #7
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    I'm not saying it's the best of ideas. But missing such simple tricks does not give me a lot of confidence in the rest of the guide. That's what I'm trying to say.

  8. #8
    Afew points where I'm disagreeing

    Skillorder: There is no reason why you'd start e instead of Q.

    Q is far better at level1 and allows you to stack your passive which can be controlled with autoattacks as well (which you've completely ignored in your guide unless I accidentally skipped it....). I agree that it should be R > E but then Q or W always depends on the matchup. W is good if you need to kill tanks but not as effective as Q when you have to disrupt the enemy team (3second silence is huge when it hits the right person and it's quite good poke)


    Runes: Why would you go flat mr yellows and flat ap blues. If you don't want manareg yellows, use hp/level or armor instead. blues scaling AP or flat mr.

    Items: going from chalice into Deathcap is more efficient than completing Athenes first (you don't really need chalice to begin with. Proper use of e and a blue buff from time to time is more than enough. Only build it if you need the mr and can't handle the manamanagement he requires).

    I really dislike buying Mercs on Malz who relies heavily on the fact that you kill someone in a single combo. Unless the enemy has tons of CC (which can't be avoided with hourglass AND you will survive it with mercs [no point in buying them when you die in the stun no matter waht]).

    Gameplay:
    You're missing a good explanation how to kill someone in a combo. You just say flash and faceroll. Doesn't work that often (flash cd) and it puts you at great risk (jungler WILL gank your lane when your flash is down. You don't have an escape).

    The right combo would be starting with E on the enemy (lowest range of spells) followed by smartcasting the remaining spells on him ASAP (he is one of the champs who really need smartcast to complete his combo). DONT ignite when ulting him on e max range because ignite has only 600 range while E has 650 (if the enemy has moved 1 step back after you used ult, the distance will be even bigger due to ult range being 700)


    There used to be an amazing in depth malzahar guide on leaguecraft but sadly I can't find it anymore (Was written during S1). The gameplay videos were great and could have helped you complete your guide

  9. #9
    okay so I started reading this guide looking for things to improve then came across this line:

    "The cons of the void [...]
    His ult can be canceled easily/by moving."

    I am sorry but if you consider it a con to be able to interrupt your 2.5 second channeled ultimate you obviously aren't that good at this game, and that's not meant as an insult, that's just meant that you should reconsider what you know about this game in general.

    E > Q > W is the standard leveling of skills on malzahar. why do you ask?
    E has higher damage than Q and costs less mana and gives you mana back per cs (or well, technically death) you get while the dot is active on the target, whereas Q gets a 1.4s + 0.4s plvl silence as a trade-off. E is also a targeted cast whereas Q is a skillshot.

    W scales from enemy HP. enemies don't particularly have HP in the early game. what makes things worse is that not only does W scale from enemy HP but is has roughly the same damage per rank increase as E and Q does, however it has a higher base damage due to the nature of the skill.

    reading your guide you say that W is a great tool for area denying due to the high base damage of the skill - no.
    running through void zone does (depending on movement speed) about 2/5 of the maximum damage - far below that of Q or E and unless someone is at 5% they're not going to be dying from that anyway. what they are afraid of when you throw down the void zone is for you to use R.

    and here is where I lost all faith you have any idea about Malzahar:
    "Nether Grasp [...]
    1. Can be quicksilver'd/cleansed out of."

    GAME BASICS 101: NO SUPPRESSION EFFECT CAN BE CLEANSED OUT OF.

    I get that you feel you're a great Malzahar player, but I can tell by the assumptions you make in your guide and the fact that you don't even know that suppression effects can't be cleansed out of that you're not. I strongly recommend that you start playing ranked and learn as you go.
    Last edited by adimaya; 2012-12-30 at 06:37 AM.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord
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    Just a quick recap.

    You guys are right, but;
    This is a guide on how I play Malzahar, and how it works for me.
    This does not mean people reading this and copying this will ever mean they will ensure a win lane, it does, however, ensure me of it.
    I know the E + W isn't optimal, but it's what I use, and I had hoped I had stated clearly enough that the guide was giving you guys a view in how I play Malzahar.
    Since when did they change that Malzahar's ult can't be cleansed out of?
    W is a good skill for area denying, people get scared of it easily, it's easy to see and not so small either.

    I also consider the ult moving thing to be a con due to the nature in which I use the ultimate, which is whenever it's safe to land.
    I'm not going to use my ult in a teamfight when they have a shitload of CC, hence I save my ult for a good time; when I can land it's full duration and secure a kill.

    I never considered my way to be the best, nor did I state it, being aware of it atleast.
    This is a guide of how I play Malzahar; Like a crocodile, I wait until I can strike.
    Having E doing a 1 time cast full minion wave clear is absolutely wonderful, gives me mana back, costs low, enables me to roam with important other cd's up.

    The whole flash in and faceroll is done when it can be done, I guess new players will have a hard time executing this properly and taking note of the jungler.

    And why shouldn't I take tips from my readers if I feel they are right?
    I'm not going to edit something into something I don't like/think is right.

    Yes, I am stubborn, but hey, This is how I play Malzahar.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Insarius View Post
    Just a quick recap.

    You guys are right, but;
    This is a guide on how I play Malzahar, and how it works for me.
    This does not mean people reading this and copying this will ever mean they will ensure a win lane, it does, however, ensure me of it.
    I know the E + W isn't optimal, but it's what I use, and I had hoped I had stated clearly enough that the guide was giving you guys a view in how I play Malzahar.
    Since when did they change that Malzahar's ult can't be cleansed out of?
    W is a good skill for area denying, people get scared of it easily, it's easy to see and not so small either.

    I also consider the ult moving thing to be a con due to the nature in which I use the ultimate, which is whenever it's safe to land.
    I'm not going to use my ult in a teamfight when they have a shitload of CC, hence I save my ult for a good time; when I can land it's full duration and secure a kill.

    I never considered my way to be the best, nor did I state it, being aware of it atleast.
    This is a guide of how I play Malzahar; Like a crocodile, I wait until I can strike.
    Having E doing a 1 time cast full minion wave clear is absolutely wonderful, gives me mana back, costs low, enables me to roam with important other cd's up.

    The whole flash in and faceroll is done when it can be done, I guess new players will have a hard time executing this properly and taking note of the jungler.

    And why shouldn't I take tips from my readers if I feel they are right?
    I'm not going to edit something into something I don't like/think is right.

    Yes, I am stubborn, but hey, This is how I play Malzahar.
    So basically you're defending how YOU play Malzahar since it just so happens to work for you (apparently), while admitting that you could play him better? Sounds to me like you should be looking at other people's guides instead of making your own. Why would you defend your style of play when you clearly know you could improve upon it?
    In promulgating your esoteric cogitations or articulating your superficial sentimentalities and amicable philosophical or psychological observations, beware of platitudinous panderosity.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    A LoL champion guide is supposed to be the source of information for the new and inexperienced on how to properly and efficiently utilize the champion they are reading up on, not a tool for you to share your preferences regarding the champion. You purposely provide information that is, at best, suboptimal. Do you not see what is wrong with giving out that kind of instructions to people who will not know better than to follow it? I'm afraid guides like yours are the reason for mobafire's bad reputation as champion information database for newbies.

    Just to clarify, I'm not telling -you- to stop playing that way, it's your playstyle so go ahead. However, do not teach others to build Malz that way because it's simply inferior. If a newbie decides to pick up Malzahar with your "guide" as the base information source they are going to be crippled - possibly more so than if they did not check up on anything since the -bad- ideas you convey will be imprinted as "but the guide said to do so so it must be correct" data.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not illegal to express."

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Insarius View Post
    Since when did they change that Malzahar's ult can't be cleansed out of?
    cleanse has NEVER been able to break suppress even in LoL alpha.
    it would make it so incredibly unbalanced vs champions like Malzahar and Warwick effectively negating their ultimates.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by adimaya View Post
    cleanse has NEVER been able to break suppress even in LoL alpha.
    it would make it so incredibly unbalanced vs champions like Malzahar and Warwick effectively negating their ultimates.
    QSS does affect malzahars ult, it removes the lock down, the damage will continue but the enemy champ will be able to move

  15. #15
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Cleanse != QSS.

  16. #16
    QSS =/= Cleanse

    One is an Item the other a summoner spell. You are right on the details concerning QSS and he's right that cleanse does nothing against WW/Malz/Urgot ult.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viled View Post
    QSS does affect malzahars ult, it removes the lock down, the damage will continue but the enemy champ will be able to move
    I'm not completely crazy after all!

    Anyway, yes, I am defending my way of playing him as a passive player who suddenly lashes and and reaches a kill.
    I've recently changed from W to Q and yes, it is stronger, and if you know how to aim it, it deals a ton of damage.
    Although placing W, E and your Ult has essentially a lower skillcap and gets a more reliable chance of getting the kill [talking about early-game] still stays in the guide.

    For the skilled Malzahar's, you should know missing the Q is bad and leaves you stalemate, which is why I enforce using W if you're not that good yet.
    I know it's sub-optimal, and newbies reading bad guides on Mobafire is their own fault.
    A good guide generally has 72%+ rating.
    Every guide which deviates from the meta automatically gets a boatload of bullcrap and downvotes.

  18. #18
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    There's a difference between 'deviating from the meta' and 'sub-optimal play'.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome esoterickk's Avatar
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    Anyway, yes, I am defending my way of playing him as a passive player who suddenly lashes and and reaches a kill.
    Yet you're constantly changing your guide based on other people telling you what's better and why. Doesn't leave much to be desired from someone authoring a guide on a specific champion.

    There's a difference between 'deviating from the meta' and 'sub-optimal play'.
    This sums it up nicely.

  20. #20
    there are just so many high level concepts which you're not using nor acknowledging that when I read you write I automatically assume you're pretty bad at this game.

    don't get me wrong - you're probably excellent at playing Malzahar at your skill level and using his abilities to the fullest, but as far as game strategies I seem to think you're lacking.

    1. you said in your game guide that roaming is essentially useless.
    Malzahar is a burst mage with heavy non-cleansable CC. he is a born and bred ganker! the reason we say "Q and E for wave clear" is because the 20-30 seconds you then have until the next wave arrives is best spent on ganking somewhere. there is a reason the AP champions go mid - they're the burstiest champions in the game before fed ad carries come into play and are excellent at turning the tides in a lane. from the mid lane they can easily go both top and bot.

    I remember my low elo games where people stayed in their lanes and only got jungle ganks until 20-25 minutes. these games dragons had a tendency to just not be there when they were called for either. you are playing low skill games and you are making assumptions about a champion from that perspective.

    2. flash is a 5 minute cooldown, your ult is a 2 minute cooldown.
    due to your passive farm game you're losing out on pressure you could be putting on other lanes.
    push and go somewhere else! if your ult is up you can land a kill both bot and top.
    if you only use your ult in a flash combination you're doing something horribly wrong - after all most of us prefer to save flash for when we really need it - not just to get a kill every five minutes which would amount to about +900g from the laning phase.

    3. QSS is a counter item to suppression champions.
    however it's also a strictly defensive item. a person with QSS has to sacrifice another item from their optimal build. you will just be ulting someone without QSS in this case and/or relying on the rest of your damage.

    all in all I still STRONGLY recommend you start playing ranked and get to a high enough elo to be able to see how players counter mechanics of champions rather than going "oh I'm laning against a malzahar that can 100-0 me"

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