View Poll Results: Should alimony still exist?

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  • Yes

    63 28.90%
  • No

    155 71.10%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Consequences of the choices he made. In an equal society, he should face the consequences and take responsibility.
    So should she. They made a decision together, they both need to take responsibility for the consequences. That's what equality actually means - not your warped interpretation of "we decide you should do this so all the responsibility is equally on only you".

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    It's called consequences. It's like responsibility is taboo in our country...
    This is a small minded view.

  3. #23
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    "One person" didn't choose not to work. The married couple decided together that they would be better off if one of the two in the marriage did the housework/child-rearing while the other supported them. It's not a question of laziness here. It's wrong to think that when the working party breaks their end of the contract while the non-working party has fulfilled their end that the working party shouldn't still be fulfilling his part of the bargain, at least in part.
    You're attempting to paint a picture of black and white where there are at least fifty shades of gray.

    Daycare?
    Take turns?
    Telecommuting?

    Once children go to school, the time investment goes down for parents drastically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockzilla View Post
    This is a small minded view.
    Oh, then feel free to enlighten us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Consequences go two ways. If you decide to be in a single income marriage, you recognize that you now have responsibility for providing for the non-working person.
    Not after the marriage terminates. Frankly, the stay-at-home party is someone else's problem at that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    It's called consequences. It's like responsibility is taboo in our country...
    Says the person advocating that half of the equation shouldn't take responsibility.

  5. #25
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Says the person advocating that half of the equation shouldn't take responsibility.
    Says the person that says half the equation is utterly helpless and should be supported indefinitely.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Not after the marriage terminates. Frankly, the stay-at-home party is someone else's problem at that point.
    What a shameless excuse for not taking responsibility for your decisions during the marriage.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
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    But why should expenses related to children have anything to do with a marriage related fee? Marriage is one thing, having children together is entirely another. You can be married without children or not be married and still have children. Why should one affect the other?
    Shouldn't that be a separate matter?
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Says the person that says half the equation is utterly helpless and should be supported indefinitely.
    Where did I say it should be indefinite? Also nice try at strawmaning, but no. You don't need to be "utterly helpless" to need some support. Typical tactics.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer NatePsychotic's Avatar
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    I think it shouldn't exist for two people that both have a steady income enough to keep them on their feet, but if the one parent is struggling then that's when alimony should stay in affect. Though I have no clue if they already do this, but if they don't, they should.
    Last edited by NatePsychotic; 2012-12-28 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #30
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Where did I say it should be indefinite? Also nice try at strawmaning, but no. You don't need to be "utterly helpless" to need some support. Typical tactics.
    Alimony was constructed at a time when one gender was indeed regarded as "helpless". Now that equality is pretty firmly established, it needs to be wiped out and rewritten completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    But why should expenses related to children
    It's not expenses related to children. It's if a couple decides that one of them should puts their career on hold to take care of children, then both parents should pay for the consequences of that decision - the reduced earning of one parent due to having a career hiatus. Alimony is intended to compensate that spouse for the loss.

  12. #32
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Alimony is intended to compensate that spouse for the loss.
    In other words, having a cake and eating it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  13. #33
    Titan Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Where did I say it should be indefinite? Also nice try at strawmaning, but no. You don't need to be "utterly helpless" to need some support. Typical tactics.
    He's referring to my term "indefinite," which I wasn't using to say "forever." I was saying indefinite because the situation would be different from couple to couple, and we shouldn't have 1 specific term of alimony for all situations. You could, for example, have alimony payments last until the spouse receiving alimony has a job that pays past a certain threshold.
    Go and tell my baby sister
    Not to do what I have done
    Go and spurn that house down in New Orleans
    They call the Rising Sun

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Alimony was constructed at a time when one gender was indeed regarded as "helpless".
    Irrelevant to the situation now. Point remains both spouses need to take responsibility for their joint decision.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    It does goes both ways.

    ...but men never complains about women paying alimony, they just pretend it doesn't happen.
    While it does happen, its not nearly as often for men, even accounting for the disparity of more women being stay at home moms, and more men being the breadwinners. The courts and legal system are biased for women on a lot of these things, and its a lot harder for a man to get what he deserves in a few cases (female on male rape prosecutions, child custody/child support, alimony, and probably some others I don't remember).

  16. #36
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Irrelevant to the situation now. Point remains both spouses need to take responsibility for their joint decision.
    Uh, something that's still in effect when written for another era is totally relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    It does goes both ways.

    ...but men never complains about women paying alimony, they just pretend it doesn't happen.
    Just stop, seriously....

    Alimony Statistics

    •According to the U.S. Census, approximately 97% of those paying alimony are men.

  18. #38
    Titan Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    In other words, having a cake and eating it too.
    What cake are they having?
    Go and tell my baby sister
    Not to do what I have done
    Go and spurn that house down in New Orleans
    They call the Rising Sun

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    In other words, having a cake and eating it too.
    In other words, your engaging your typical "don't have a rational argument, so just keep sprouting nonsense" approach again.

    Having a lower income due to putting your career on hold is not "having a cake".

  20. #40
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    What cake are they having?
    They chose to stay home, and now the want the financial benefits of the alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

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