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  1. #21
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    It will be kinda weird that if a neutral faction that is made up from only 1 race which is horde's race. I have never seen something like that. Cenarion Circle,Argent crusade and all neutral faction welcome every race to join their rank.
    exactly. Just because the frostwolves are not part of Garrosh's warmongering blackhand-isk ways doesn't meant they should be cast adrift from the horde.
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  2. #22
    With neutral members and organizations taking sides on the war, it would be very wierd to see the core of the New Horde to be become neutral especially when it is needed the most.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 01:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    But wasn't this the case with the Cenarion Circle too? I mean just think about it, in the end it was the Horde that killed their mentor, Cenarius, yet they passed their differences for peace, because they understood, that even though they were a mostly night elven organization, the best course of action for their race and their faction would be peace.
    The Cenarion Circle moved beyond the "Night Elven organization" to become a druidic organization. But, even the Circle leadership is taking sides, Hamuul was amongst those that attacked Northwatch and Theramore.

    The time now is not for neutral organizations. Only the Argent Crusade members seems to be outside of the loop.
    Last edited by Tauror; 2012-12-29 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #23
    Sorry, but what Alliance factions have gone neutral? There are tons of neutral NPCs from both sides' races and I don't see anything particularly abnormal about Alliance groups. The Silver Covenant is probably the single most egregious anomaly. This probably stems from some idea that everyone should be baseline Alliance. If you have any examples, I'd be glad to hear it but I'm sure I'll have plenty of counter examples.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
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  4. #24
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Sorry, but what Alliance factions have gone neutral?
    Argent Crusade/Tirion.
    Cenarion Circle of which was a Night Elf organisation before the Tauren started practising Druidism again, this goes further when you include the Guardians of Hyjal.
    The Kirin Tor up until now.
    Numerous Draenei factions in TBC, if you really wanted to go for it you could say a lot of the Ashtongue stuff should've been Alliance because of the Draenei.

    Compared to all of this the Horde so far has one note worth faction and character - The Earthen Ring and Thrall.

    Here is a list of all neutral factions - http://www.wowpedia.org/Faction

    There's probably one or two I've missed. But yes the Alliance has been the faction that's been the victim of neutral factions the most - easily. I don't think it should happen to the Horde as "payback" as I feel that's kinda childish and essentially promoting what was a bad idea in the first place, but I feel people should still bear in mind what has happened in the past.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-12-29 at 01:47 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    There's probably one or two I've missed. But yes the Alliance has been the faction that's been the victim of neutral factions the most - easily. I don't think it should happen to the Horde as "payback" as I feel that's kinda childish and essentially promoting what was a bad idea in the first place, but I feel people should still bear in mind what has happened in the past.
    You do realize that this is because, lore-wise, Blizzard had written far, far too many of the factions as being Alliance... right?

    Not to mention that all Alliance players seem to view every single Human, Gnome, Draenei, Night Elf, Worgen and Dwarf as being destined to belong to the Alliance (apart from people like Arthas, because the Alliance can NEVER be evil, in any even remote way. I mean, Arthas was totally an Orc, right? Yeah, he was an Orc). You never catch Horde players bitching that the Zandalari aren't part of the Horde.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Argent Crusade/Tirion.
    Cenarion Circle of which was a Night Elf organisation before the Tauren started practising Druidism again, this goes further when you include the Guardians of Hyjal.
    The Kirin Tor up until now.
    Numerous Draenei factions in TBC, if you really wanted to go for it you could say a lot of the Ashtongue stuff should've been Alliance because of the Draenei.

    Compared to all of this the Horde so far has one note worth faction and character - The Earthen Ring and Thrall.

    Here is a list of all neutral factions - http://www.wowpedia.org/Faction

    There's probably one or two I've missed. But yes the Alliance has been the faction that's been the victim of neutral factions the most - easily. I don't think it should happen to the Horde as "payback" as I feel that's kinda childish and essentially promoting what was a bad idea in the first place, but I feel people should still bear in mind what has happened in the past.
    So, you don't like that they took your names? That's all it comes down to. All of those factions have at least as many Horde races as Alliance races.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  7. #27
    If Illidan and Arthas still belonged to the Alliance, there would be no Horde. Maybe we should QQ about that

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki View Post
    You do realize that this is because, lore-wise, Blizzard had written far, far too many of the factions as being Alliance... right?
    Then why not give the Horde more?
    Surely that benefits everybody. Horde gets more factions and Alliance keeps theirs. While taking them away from one faction benefits nobody.

    I don't for one second believe the Alliance has more factions. Characters arguably, but not factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki View Post
    Not to mention that all Alliance players seem to view every single Human, Gnome, Draenei, Night Elf, Worgen and Dwarf as being destined to belong to the Alliance (apart from people like Arthas, because the Alliance can NEVER be evil, in any even remote way. I mean, Arthas was totally an Orc, right? Yeah, he was an Orc). You never catch Horde players bitching that the Zandalari aren't part of the Horde.
    This is probably because the factions in question were/are part of the Alliance. Zandalari Trolls are also a separate race I might add.
    I'm not sure what you're on about with the Alliance not being evil, we've a history of bad eggs just like the Horde does.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 02:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    So, you don't like that they took your names? That's all it comes down to. All of those factions have at least as many Horde races as Alliance races.
    Except they didn't originally. That's the point. They have been developed to be multi racial and neutral.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Sorry, but what Alliance factions have gone neutral? There are tons of neutral NPCs from both sides' races and I don't see anything particularly abnormal about Alliance groups. The Silver Covenant is probably the single most egregious anomaly. This probably stems from some idea that everyone should be baseline Alliance. If you have any examples, I'd be glad to hear it but I'm sure I'll have plenty of counter examples.
    The Knights of the Silver Hand, the Cenarion Circle and the Kirin Tor. The Knights became the Argent Crusade and the Kirin Tor is Alliance again.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 02:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki View Post
    You do realize that this is because, lore-wise, Blizzard had written far, far too many of the factions as being Alliance... right?
    The Horde also had their share number of organizations, thought they were evil since their creation. The Shadow Council and the Twilight's Hammer.
    Last edited by Tauror; 2012-12-29 at 02:26 PM.

  10. #30
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    It will be kinda weird that if a neutral faction that is made up from only 1 race which is horde's race. I have never seen something like that. Cenarion Circle,Argent crusade and all neutral faction welcome every race to join their rank.
    Ashtongue Deathsworn. All broken draenei.
    The Netherwing. All netherwing drakes.
    Brood of Nozdormu. All bronze dragons.
    Hydraxian Waterlords. All water elementals.


    But wait, you were talking about a race being already part of one of the two main alliances, right?
    The Aldor - all draenei.
    The Scryers - all blood elves.
    Also, the Shattered Sun Offensive was mostly blood elves before the naaru and the draenei offered their help.

    In current situation, is it so hard to think that someone might offer help to the Frostwolves around? Maybe the draenei, since they get very little story lately and the orcs need help to make peace with the land after all the war with the Stormpikes that lasted for years and ravaged it. And Drek would be smart to ask the help of exactly those his race exterminated since it would create a bond between the two and teach younger orcs that they can live in peace with the draenei.

    Or even better, he could ask the help of the Cenarion Circle and have night elves come to help with nature since it's become tainted because of the Forsaken influence (a sort of "if you're not with me, you're against me"). this would create the most weird alliance, one between orcs and night elves. Which would show the night elves not all orcs are savage and the orcs that not all night elves are xenophobic bastards. The Cenarion Circle would of course accept to help to heal the land and all that. And some orcs could become interested in how the night elves live, since, think about it, the Frostwolves aren't like all clans, fighting all the time. They fought with the Stormpike because it was the only choice, but they were one of the clans who opposed the fighting during the original wars with humans until they were... coerced into it. Now they want to return to the old ways and communicate better with the elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Sorry, but what Alliance factions have gone neutral? There are tons of neutral NPCs from both sides' races and I don't see anything particularly abnormal about Alliance groups. The Silver Covenant is probably the single most egregious anomaly. This probably stems from some idea that everyone should be baseline Alliance. If you have any examples, I'd be glad to hear it but I'm sure I'll have plenty of counter examples.
    You're kidding, right?
    Cenarion Circle(and friends, 2 more related)
    The Violet Eye
    The Kirin Tor (until now)
    The Silver Hand

    The only counter example is The Earthen Ring.

    But the problem was not mostly with factions going neutral, but with important npcs. Cenarius, Malfurion, Khadgar, Rhonin etc, and it isn't even that they're going neutral, but how they're going neutral:
    Cenarius - killed by fel-tainted Horde, the orc who killed him praised by orcs, Horde continue destroying nature, orcs offered 0 support in Hyjal (adventurers like player character aren't really support, you're payed to do those quests, are you not?)
    Malfurion - night elf leader, woke up, his race in Alliance... goes to Hyjal while his mate is under attack by Horde, sits next to her and does nothing while she's under attack, even her owl helps her more. Let's take the counter example to Malfurion. Hamuul. If you go to TB as Alliance he'll attack you. Because he can. Yet he's Cenarion Circle. So is Malfurion.
    Khadgar - seriously, spent his life fighting orcs, saw their destruction on Azeroth and Outland then just decides he's had enough? ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki View Post
    You do realize that this is because, lore-wise, Blizzard had written far, far too many of the factions as being Alliance... right?

    Not to mention that all Alliance players seem to view every single Human, Gnome, Draenei, Night Elf, Worgen and Dwarf as being destined to belong to the Alliance (apart from people like Arthas, because the Alliance can NEVER be evil, in any even remote way. I mean, Arthas was totally an Orc, right? Yeah, he was an Orc). You never catch Horde players bitching that the Zandalari aren't part of the Horde.
    This is their chance to make an actual Horde faction. The Frostwolves can become a faction of their own.
    And no, for example Ravenholdt are mostly humans, yet I never saw them as Alliance.
    Thorium Brotherhood, mostly dwarves, never saw them as Alliance etc. So your idea is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    So, you don't like that they took your names? That's all it comes down to. All of those factions have at least as many Horde races as Alliance races.
    They do... now, after years of being neutral.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    The Violet Eye
    I wonder if now that faction also belongs to the alliance ...


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    exactly. Just because the frostwolves are not part of Garrosh's warmongering blackhand-isk ways doesn't meant they should be cast adrift from the horde.
    they are different from the Horde at its core. So long as scum clans like the Warsong run rampant in the Horde and are given positions beyond peon labour there is little that could be done to rectify it. I'd like to see an independent Frostwolf clan. They were independent from the start and they actually give a damn about the land they live on, unlike that parasitic infection in Durotar.

  13. #33
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I wonder if now that faction also belongs to the alliance ...
    That's actually a good question, since they were a special part of the Kirin Tor dealing with Karahazan. But the upper part of it is dealt with, so did they go back to the Kirin Tor or not?

  14. #34
    So...again. You are mad they took your names. You seem to be forgetting that the reason they are considered neutral factions is because the strengths of all the races' druids/shamans/paladins was needed. Sure, the Cenarion Circle could have put a 'no cows allowed' sign but they would have been a lot weaker. You seem to think, though, that the power of the organization lies in their name rather than its constituent members.

    As for Malfurion, consider it a consolation prize to the horde for 8 years of Alterac Valley.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  15. #35
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The time now is not for neutral organizations. Only the Argent Crusade members seems to be outside of the loop.
    And that's likely because the Crusade can make their neutrality stick. These are the guys who spearheaded events in Icecrown, have effectively removed all presence of the Scourge in the Eastern Plaguelands, have worked with the Cenarion Circle to rejuvenate parts of both the Eastern and Western Plaguelands, and the Plaguelands themselves are set up in such a way that the two main Crusade bases (Hearthglen and Light's Hope) are easily defended and, in Light's Hope's case, a stone's throw from a base run by elite soldiers who are hardwired to enjoy combat and who go mad with bloodlust if they don't fight, to say nothing of Stratholme if they repopulate it. The Crusade is a lot like Switzerland--there's a reason everyone respects their neutrality.

    As far as the Frostwolves, though, I don't think they'll become neutral so much as they'll be sitting the war out. Drek'thar was pretty blunt when he tells the Horde Adventurer that he has no intention of helping the Forsaken out and he probably doesn't have much to say about Garrosh's plans that would be nice.

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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    So...again. You are mad they took your names. You seem to be forgetting that the reason they are considered neutral factions is because the strengths of all the races' druids/shamans/paladins was needed. Sure, the Cenarion Circle could have put a 'no cows allowed' sign but they would have been a lot weaker. You seem to think, though, that the power of the organization lies in their name rather than its constituent members.

    As for Malfurion, consider it a consolation prize to the horde for 8 years of Alterac Valley.
    Who took the names?

    Cenarion Circle? The leadership is still the same as it was when was a Night Elven Club (except for Fandral, that is).
    Kirin Tor? Heck, one of the council is there even before there was an Alliance.
    Knights of the Silver Hand? It was rebuilt by one of the very last surviving Alliance paladins. Sure, he was exiled, but he was one of its founding members, part of the Alliance.

    In short, no one "took their names". The organizations simply developed to a more neutral position.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 06:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    And that's likely because the Crusade can make their neutrality stick. These are the guys who spearheaded events in Icecrown, have effectively removed all presence of the Scourge in the Eastern Plaguelands, have worked with the Cenarion Circle to rejuvenate parts of both the Eastern and Western Plaguelands, and the Plaguelands themselves are set up in such a way that the two main Crusade bases (Hearthglen and Light's Hope) are easily defended and, in Light's Hope's case, a stone's throw from a base run by elite soldiers who are hardwired to enjoy combat and who go mad with bloodlust if they don't fight, to say nothing of Stratholme if they repopulate it. The Crusade is a lot like Switzerland--there's a reason everyone respects their neutrality.
    Getting a nation was indeed the best that the Crusade got to stick out of the faction war.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    That's actually a good question, since they were a special part of the Kirin Tor dealing with Karahazan. But the upper part of it is dealt with, so did they go back to the Kirin Tor or not?
    Only deal with Karazhan? I swear that were also involved in Outland ...
    I have understood that the Violet Eye are a kind of private investigators at the service of the Kirin Tor.


  18. #38
    They kind of are neutral already since they don´t want to help Sylvanas and Garroshs horde. They are just not important enough as a faction.

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Zuben's Avatar
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    They more or less are, with refusing to aid Horde forces and not bothering Alliance currently. Gameplay-wise I don't see them going all-neutral, they would be like Eitrigg, neutral when there's a reason for it.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  20. #40
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    And that's likely because the Crusade can make their neutrality stick. These are the guys who spearheaded events in Icecrown, have effectively removed all presence of the Scourge in the Eastern Plaguelands, have worked with the Cenarion Circle to rejuvenate parts of both the Eastern and Western Plaguelands, and the Plaguelands themselves are set up in such a way that the two main Crusade bases (Hearthglen and Light's Hope) are easily defended and, in Light's Hope's case, a stone's throw from a base run by elite soldiers who are hardwired to enjoy combat and who go mad with bloodlust if they don't fight, to say nothing of Stratholme if they repopulate it. The Crusade is a lot like Switzerland--there's a reason everyone respects their neutrality.
    Except that the Forsaken are kind of re-plaguing the Plaguelands... doesn't that go against what the Argent Crusade is working for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Only deal with Karazhan? I swear that were also involved in Outland ...
    I have understood that the Violet Eye are a kind of private investigators at the service of the Kirin Tor.
    You're actually right there if I think better.

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