Japan or Korea?

[Pachycrocuta]

I would say Japan, because the country looks beautiful. But Korea wouldn't be a bad choice because the girls are absurdly beautiful.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I wouldn't say "incredibly" racist... though I don't know a forward thinking first world country that has "no foreigners" "no german" "No americans" "no french" signs on the front of their businesses. I know people who think "oh those poor japanese having to deal with those loud Americans"

EVERYWHERE HAS TOURIST!!! THIS ISN'T AN EXCUSE FOR "NO GAIJIN" things. Some bath houses don't allow gaijins either... and if you have a tattoo forget about it, unless you go somewhere else... that usually would have different "characters"





Could you imagine this stuff in say New York? You walk past a store and it says "No foreigners, unless you have an American with you"

Look i don't support racism or nationalism either, but I do recognise that at some point and maybe with Americans, maybe not all of us but I am sure possibly enough, maybe just maybe some in Japan over all might not be that comfortable being seen as charectors or, objects as a nation, I am not saying everybody does this, but some of the kinds of interest i have seen in Japanese culture by many Americans, I could assume might just not be appreciated by them.



They live in Japan, they have to work, eat, make a living pay bills, their society is based on function, not entertaining guest, i can't imagine what that society is going through right now. And sometimes not always but Americans might not know when to back off. Or sometimes when our perceptions about something especially a cultural experience might not jive with as many people as we assume, putting on a friendly face or not.



Atleast it is saying with a Japanese escort, maybe they had enough trying to communicate with people who aren't Japanese and need a liason, maybe it is a bit racist, or whatever who knows, but I don't think it is out of hate, possibly just out of comfort, i think things like this are hard to see for outsiders and especially if you are from somewhere that doesn't hear NO all that often.

[Themius]

What? This is totally untrue. I basically lived off an American credit card in Kanazawa way back in 1999, and that's the boonies by Japanese standards.

Doesn't change the fact that the popular way to do things is with cash.

[Remilia]

I want to live in Japan for a wee while so ill be learning the language, after doing alot of research on the place, Ide say this guys right. From what ive read it seems that xenophobia of white guys and racism of black guys is kinda the norm. They even do it in japanese shows / animes.

Plus theres alot of places your just plain not allowed in.

When people go "only in Japan", it's not exactly helping the situation, even if said thing wasn't even from Japan. You have to admit that a lot of the attitude towards foreigners are us to blame.

[Themius]

I want to live in Japan for a wee while so ill be learning the language, after doing alot of research on the place, Ide say this guys right. From what ive read it seems that xenophobia of white guys and racism of black guys is kinda the norm. They even do it in japanese shows / animes.

Plus theres alot of places your just plain not allowed in.

Lol my friend got called a Kurombo once in Kyoto, it's pretty much nigger in Japanese. He also couldn't get into a bath house without his wife as they didn't allow gaijins unless they had a Japanese escort.

[Beavis]

Doesn't change the fact that the popular way to do things is with cash.

Yeah, I know. But as a Remilia said, that's a cultural thing. You can get by just fine in Japan on American plastic. And I don't even know where to start with the internet thing. Average connection speed in Japan is like triple what it is in the US.

[Themius]

When people go "only in Japan", it's not exactly helping the situation, even if said thing wasn't even from Japan. You have to admit that a lot of the attitude towards foreigners are us to blame.

Cut that BS out right now.

The attitude towards gaijin isn't "gaijin's fault" of course foreigners aren't going to have in depth knowledge of your culture, so shunning them from your culture and saying "Japanese only" and giggling and saying "OOH YOU CAN USE CHOPSTICKS?!" when a normal 4 year old can use them, points a little more towards the Japanese people and not the foreigners.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 08:27 PM ----------

Look i don't support racism or nationalism either, but I do recognise that at some point and maybe with Americans, maybe not all of us but I am sure possibly enough, maybe just maybe some in Japan over all might not be that comfortable being seen as charectors or, objects as a nation, I am not saying everybody does this, but some of the kinds of interest i have seen in Japanese culture by many Americans, I could assume might just not be appreciated by them.



They live in Japan, they have to work, eat, make a living pay bills, their society is based on function, not entertaining guest, and right now especially i can't imagine the kind of things they are going through right now. And sometimes not always but Americans don't always know when to back off. Or sometimes when our perceptions about something especially a cultural experience might not jive with is many people as we assume, putting on a friendly face or not.



Atleast it is saying with a Japanese escort, maybe they had enough trying to communicate with people who aren't Japanese and need a liason, maybe it is a bit racist, or whatever who knows, but I don't think it is out of hate, possibly just out of comfort, i think things like this are hard to see for outsiders and especially if you are from somewhere that doesn't hear NO all that often.

The whole "No Gaijin unless you have a Japanese escort" isn't American only you know, it's EVERYONE UNLESS YOU'RE JAPANESE or Asian but kinda look Japanese and speak it fluently and have a suto Japanese name.

What about the immigrants who live, work, pay bills in Japan but are still denied access to places because they're not ethnically Japanese? What about them? Stop making excuses for them.

[Kouki]

When people go "only in Japan", it's not exactly helping the situation, even if said thing wasn't even from Japan. You have to admit that a lot of the attitude towards foreigners are us to blame.

I Have to disagree with you Rem *Dodges the school desk thrown at him*

Racism is not the fault of the target race,

If The attitude towards Gaijin a racist Name in itself,

Do we go about saying non-whites and expect less anger?

If Gaijin bring it on themselves then we have to re-evaluate all xenophobia and racism from the last 2000 years and see how many groups brought it on themselves. Israel palestine, Japan vs China, Israel vs Germany, Japan vs USA. In each group who was to blame?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Cut that BS out right now.

The attitude towards gaijin isn't "gaijin's fault" of course foreigners aren't going to have in depth knowledge of your culture, so shunning them from your culture and saying "Japanese only" and giggling and saying "OOH YOU CAN USE CHOPSTICKS?!" when a normal 4 year old can use them, points a little more towards the Japanese people and not the foreigners.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 08:27 PM ----------



The whole "No Gaijin unless you have a Japanese escort" isn't American only you know, it's EVERYONE UNLESS YOU'RE JAPANESE or Asian but kinda look Japanese and speak it fluently and have a suto Japanese name.

What about the immigrants who live, work, pay bills in Japan but are still denied access to places because they're not ethnically Japanese? What about them? Stop making excuses for them.

Look i don't want to derail the post, if you live there, then I guess you know how that sign feels more than me, but I am only speaking as an American, but sometimes when we travel, or visit, i have notice we can come across a bit much, when our view of something and the reality don't match.



But if Japan badly needs tourism dollars, maybe that could be cool to see Tokyo.

[Remilia]

Cut that BS out right now.

The attitude towards gaijin isn't "gaijin's fault" of course foreigners aren't going to have in depth knowledge of your culture, so shunning them from your culture and saying "Japanese only" and giggling and saying "OOH YOU CAN USE CHOPSTICKS?!" when a normal 4 year old can use them, points a little more towards the Japanese people and not the foreigners.

I'm curious as to why you are even using 外人(gaijin). It's a derogatory word nowadays used by an announcer for a baseball match cause he was a retard.
That being said, it's not that we are the entire fault, everyone is at fault quite honestly. Neither side is going to change quickly.

Also I said "Only in Japan" attitude as things that are 'absurd'. Us making derogatory statements towards them do not help the situation.
I made no mention of Japanese only.
Also the chopstick thing, you get that a lot in the US.

It also doesn't help when you literally google "only in japan" you get a nice list of sites just bashing Japan.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Spent a fair amount of time in both (not military related), you really can't go wrong with either one but personally I'd take Japan over Korea any day of the week. Love the culture and the history and there is just a ton of stuff to do there.

[Themius]

Dont worry Im not bashing or anything, whilst I dont agree with it, theres most likely reasons behind it. I can understand the reasons behind bath house bans for example.

However I dont think its really fair tbh to just blame ourselfs entirely, yes brits abroad can be rowdy and drink a shitload but they usually visit party destinations to do that. In Scotland theres hundreds of people from all over asia (including Japan) coming for the education, we dont discriminate, we embrace them.

Its still a place I definately want to visit though, I love the food and the culture.

I was on the train and saw a bunch of Japanese tourist who were drunk and loud as fuck. Does that mean it's entirely resoanble to have "no riding without American escort (to: Japanese people only)"

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 08:36 PM ----------

I'm curious as to why you are even using 外人(gaijin). It's a derogatory word nowadays used by an announcer for a baseball match cause he was a retard.
That being said, it's not that we are the entire fault, everyone is at fault quite honestly. Neither side is going to change quickly.

Also I said "Only in Japan" attitude as things that are 'absurd'. Us making derogatory statements towards them do not help the situation.
I made no mention of Japanese only.
Also the chopstick thing, you get that a lot in the US.

It also doesn't help when you literally google "only in japan" you get a nice list of sites just bashing Japan.

Because it is a word that is still used. The "no foreigner" signs = "gaijin".

So what? EVERY COUNTRY GETS BASHED EVERY COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET HAS A NICE LITTLE SITE DEDICATED TO BASHING THEM.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 08:38 PM ----------

Spent a fair amount of time in both (not military related), you really can't go wrong with either one but personally I'd take Japan over Korea any day of the week. Love the culture and the history and there is just a ton of stuff to do there.

Who is that in your avatar is it by chance...

"Mama oooh ooh oooh I don't wanna die, sometimes wish i never been born at all"

"She keeps a moet an chandon in a pretty cabenet, let them eat cake she says just like Marie Antoinette"

"Ooh love, there he goes again that's my good old fashioned lover boy"

"I was just a skinny lad, never knew good from bad, but I knew life before I left my nursery"

I think it is, it's just too little for me to be 100% sure.

[Remilia]

Because it is a word that is still used. The "no foreigner" signs = "gaijin".

So what? EVERY COUNTRY GETS BASHED EVERY COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET HAS A NICE LITTLE SITE DEDICATED TO BASHING THEM.

If you want change you stop using it.
Continuing the pattern doesn't help.
This goes for both sides.

Every country gets bashed doesn't make it any more acceptable.
I don't really care about the country bashing, but other people do.

[Themius]

If you want change you stop using it.
Continuing the pattern doesn't help.
This goes for both sides.

Every country gets bashed doesn't make it any more acceptable.
I don't really care about the country bashing, but other people do.

What does this have anything to do with the fact that Japan comes across very xenophobic. You can know Japanese, you can live in Japan, you can have a Japanese family in a nice little Japanese house with Japanese neighbours and speak exclusively Japanese, and get stopped every few days because you ARE NOT ethnically Japanese. You can not go everywhere in the country you live in the country you became a "Japanese" citizen of. You can not go to, for instance, the red light district without Japanese person, though a lot of places don't allow any gaijin, with or without a Japanese person. I say gaijin because that's how it is thought. I was speaking online to a Japanese guy once he started on a long thing about "gaijins" and complaining about them, saying they don't know their customs. Well so what?

[Doctor Amadeus]

If you want change you stop using it.
Continuing the pattern doesn't help.
This goes for both sides.

Every country gets bashed doesn't make it any more acceptable.
I don't really care about the country bashing, but other people do.

Agreed, but I will say I think sometimes peoples facination with a place Australia, Japan, whatever, can border on sometimes un healthy obsessions, and I am not sure exactly how some of them in general day to day society feel who have to live in Japan see that sort of thing, when maybe they just want to go to a local pub or something and have a pint after work, and they have to put up with someone who wants to play from another world, or stare at them.

[Deleted]

I have always wanted to go to Japan.. So therefore Japan gets my vote.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Doesnt that happen everywhere though?

Haha, probably true, I am sure at some point if you went to say like Australia and do some kind of joke you seen in a movie, or do the Ozzy ozzy ozzy thing, some might oi oi oi you, some might want to punch you in the face, and others might go take it downtown or something.



Hell New York doesn't have signs like that, but I am sure there are probably a few peole are like " YEAH YEAH YEAH its a tall building, get over it, I am trying to walk to work over here"



I mean some places might have it worse than others and Japanese people some might have had enough tourist so they put a sign up that way, not sure its racist but again, i am not from there. But I do know some Americans that have some pretty freaky facinations with the place, that if they ever went over there, i would worry they would either wind up arrested for being stalkers or stabbed for annoying someone.

[-Ethos-]

I dont understand why people are bringing up signs that have been against the law for almost 20 years.

Racism and ignorance are present in all countries and cultures. Allowing that to stop you only reinforces bigoted ideals.

[artemishunter1]

When people go "only in Japan", it's not exactly helping the situation, even if said thing wasn't even from Japan. You have to admit that a lot of the attitude towards foreigners are us to blame.

no. do not make excuses for them. They are racist, simple as that.

[Remilia]

no. do not make excuses for them. They are racist, simple as that.

Fighting racism with racism equals more racism.