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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reaper View Post
    So you are saying that at level 80 you have no items available to raise your average iLvl to 226 when you should be able to get:
    - Green lvl272 BoEs , the ones you say there is none at the AH (remember that you can use items of any armor class you can equip to raise the iLvL)
    - BoE crafted lvl 289 gear : tailoring has 4 pieces and embersilk can't be very expensive nowadays
    - PvP gear 270 lvl set and 264 lvl off set

    So, if you don't have average ilvl 226 at lvl 80 is just because you don't want to, not just because the "evil PvPers" are camping cata lvl 80 zones.
    Hell he should be able to get 409 MoP blues which would make him able to solo LFD runs if need be.

  2. #82
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Let's see not ever having the risk of dieing yourself while engaging in those "pvp" encounters doesn't strike you as a bad design ?
    You still have a risk, even with flying mounts. Until Mounts work in combat there is still a risk, now you're just being untruthful.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  3. #83
    PvP on a PvP server. In my book red = dead. I don't care what level you are.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    You still have a risk, even with flying mounts. Until Mounts work in combat there is still a risk, now you're just being untruthful.
    Going around killing lowbies will never result in you dieing as there are way too many ways for you to hide.

  5. #85
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Going around killing lowbies will never result in you dieing as there are way too many ways for you to hide.
    I disagree, there's still a risk people will mention and you'll be at risk. I've seen it happen before.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  6. #86
    Brewmaster Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Let's see not ever having the risk of dieing yourself while engaging in those "pvp" encounters doesn't strike you as a bad design ?
    But the OP kept complaining that he was getting ganked and you're saying it's too easy NOT to be ganked? Or are you saying the ganker will never die, because in that case I'd like to refer you to the city guards whom are now stacking, deals large proportions of damage and does not have to wait a full cycle to respawn before the civilian being threatened in the settlement calls out another the moment the guard has been killed. Keep in mind, guards in Vanilla was a minor obstacle at best and anyone who had rare quality items or better could counter them as all stats was meta and such things as negated effects on guardian NPC's existed and stealth detection was based off a generated number from talents and countered by "How close am I standing to detect that guys number, if ever".
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  7. #87
    I can't speak for every server but where I am right now it's not so bad. I've been leveling several alts and what not and I've only been ganked a few times. I don't even get pissed about it unless they try to corpse camp me, which hasn't happened yet. There's a lot of different ways to avoid gankers. I try to avoid them as best as I can.

  8. #88
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthcullen View Post
    I feel like I am entitled to a free realm swap over to a lower population even pve realm.
    Oh absolutely you are /facedesks

  9. #89
    Imo i actually like crz to an extent , but for the most part its seem more or less like blizzard trying to find a way NOT to make server transfers free or better yet find a way way to put together all ally populated servers and horde populated servers together , 5.2 landfall is very boring on my server mug'thol because there is like 1000 horde and like 5 ally, becuase of that refusal last patch has been kinda boring, raiding and dungeons bore the hell outta im pvp and world pvp all the way, but if this keeps up i might have to call it quits.

  10. #90
    Brewmaster Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Going around killing lowbies will never result in you dieing as there are way too many ways for you to hide.
    Alright, I follow you, now, and in that case a dishonorable act was comitted - period. Being ganked you A: Call in friends. B: Log off and do something else. C: Log to another char: D: Escape yourself, which is often relatively easy especially at 60+. E: Attempt to fight back, however futile, or F: wait untill the guy gets bored of ganking you or finds a new target and leg it.

    Essentially, everything that can be complained about regarding CRZ could also have happened if suddenly 40 bastards from another realm all decided to realm transfer just to grief on people, but that would'nt even have caused a mention. Only because a meassure was taken by Blizzard to increase world activity is it suddenly a rare phenomenon that never occoured before, right? =S

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 07:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darkhellion View Post
    Imo i actually like crz to an extent , but for the most part its seem more or less like blizzard trying to find a way NOT to make server transfers free or better yet find a way way to put together all ally populated servers and horde populated servers together , 5.2 landfall is very boring on my server mug'thol because there is like 1000 horde and like 5 ally, becuase of that refusal last patch has been kinda boring, raiding and dungeons bore the hell outta im pvp and world pvp all the way, but if this keeps up i might have to call it quits.
    You know what? I agree. And I'll add, I think it's a damn shame that MoP does not have CRZ as it would add even more battle and war to World of Warcraft, but as exhibit A (this thread) clearly displays, CRZ'ing old content caused havoc for a short while, imagine if they had done it with current content aswell. That'd have been HELL. But yeah, imagine how awesome Landfall could be and IS on large realms. Infact, I encourage you to go check it out on a high populated realm with relative faction balance and you're in for an unforgettable ride.
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  11. #91
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    If you don''t like the server you have chosen try character migration? It's free.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Darthcullen View Post
    No leather fro level 78-80 with ilvl over 219, and every issue I experienced was CRZ-related. Next person.
    find cloth or leather ilvl 219+ on AH or find someone to craft the items you need. Heirlooms with ilvl 1 is fantastic to not beeeing able to join dungeons. so i always make sure i keep items for those slots of higher ilvl :=)


    Only playing casual in this game now. And damn it feels great.

  13. #93
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthcullen View Post
    I can't do dungeons, my ilvl isn't high enough. I can't quest to level, both areas are filled with level 90 alliance players that gank me immediately. I am literally stuck at level 80 because of these broken CRZ's. I joined a pvp realm in vanilla with my cousin because he had fun doing real wpvp leveling up to 60. Then it died and never showed a spark of returning. CRZ's I assume, were an attempt to bring wpvp back, but turned out to be the single most annoying thing in the game. The design of a pvp realm has changed, and I feel like I am entitled to a free realm swap over to a lower population even pve realm. I am literally incapable of leveling in any efficient form whatsoever, and it is because of one broken system that Blizzard backs for some reason. Another thing; after I get ganked and head back to the main area with guards, I use my ONE heal (expel harm) and it seeks out a nearby enemy (tons of alliance players thanks to CRZ's) and makes the guards hostile so I die again. This is total bull feces.
    Why are you on a PvP server, if you don't wanna be ganked ?

  14. #94
    Sorry man, even though CRZ is just an excuse for gankers to have more fun, it's completely legal. So there is nothing you can do except transfer.
    (Especially since the way things work in WoW at the moment, other random players in the wild are a nuisance at best.)

    This is why I try to avoid all kinds of "outdoor" or "world" PvP in MMOs these days; it's just annoying, and people go too far on their little quest to track you down and murder you no matter what you do. They make it their personal goal to hate you, despise you and kill you just to spite you. That's how "world PvP" is.

    As long as you are forced to be on a PvP server, I'm afraid you will have to live like a fugitive, or simply suck it up. No offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Why are you on a PvP server, if you don't wanna be ganked ?
    Didn't read the post, did you? Sometimes people are forced for the sake of friends.

    But I guess some people can't relate to that.

  15. #95
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Didn't read the post, did you? Sometimes people are forced for the sake of friends.

    But I guess some people can't relate to that.
    \


    You aren't really forced unless you're friend suddenly decide to unfriend you which is silly. I used to be on a PVP server, some people I knew IRL were on it. I got off of it due to someone I know. I get that his cousin was on X server he probably should of thought about it before going right away.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  16. #96
    I don't understand how all the "PVP happens on a PVP server" crowd doesn't see how world PVP has consistently changed for the worst since it's inception. World PVP was at it's best during Vanilla. Max level players out in the world having it out. I remember a good deal of level appropriate world PVP in most zones I leveled in during Vanilla as well.

    BC was the 2nd best, IMO, where I still randomly ran into level appropriate world PVP, however that was gradually going away and "World PVP" consisted primarily of stealth classes ganking in STV and level 70's ganking Hellfire Pen on their flying mounts.

    In Wrath we saw the leveling zones turn into barren waste lands (I account this to the gankers telling everyone to either deal with them, or GTFO). So everyone took the gankers advice and left the questing world for the comfort of leveling from the capitals. With no prey, the ganker population dried up and we saw the decline of the Rogue class in player representation. So what we see the gankers hunting their prey to extinction. (good work!)

    Cata had the same issues of Wrath, with no one leveling out in the world as well as higher levelers all on flying mounts. Ganking was difficult to do, which oddly enough was still the lion's share of player versus player combat. I did not see level neutral players coming at each others. Levelers left each other alone almost every encounter, and gankers were not prevalent because there were too few players to prey on.

    Bring on Mop and "ganking" is still the overwhelming majority of World PVP, though now with more players thrown together the gankers have returned to hunt their prey to extinction once again. Already you see less and less players in leveling zones (not just 85-90), so the cycle continues, because Blizzard doesn't understand you can't just shove everyone in a giant room with no rules. Blizzard's world PVP model is severely broken. Has been for many years now and without change will always lead to it's own demise.

    While the OP did do a lot of QQ, there were still one or two valid points. Looks like he is willing to transfer to carebear, he just wants Blizzard to foot the bill, as the changes they made aren't what he originally signed up for. I don't think that's too egregious a request.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    So what you're saying is...PVP happened on a PVP server?
    the problem is pvp doesnt happen on pvp servers anymore.

    there are 3 core issues with PvP on pvp servers. the argument of "you knew better" is only valid for people who have not been playing on pvp servers when they actually offered the genuine pvp realm experience.

    Keep in mind flying mounts in the old world are only in the game since cataclysm. A bad idea to begin with. A horrible idea coupled with CRZ.


    these are the 3 big arguments, invalidating any argument made to support the pitiful state world pvp is in currently.
    all those people trying hard to find excuses and defend the sorry state of world pvp("I'm a carebear on a pve realm but my opinion is that "pvp happened!!!11") are not displaying what they apparently perceive as "being a real tough guy and a world pvp connoisseur". All you guys are displaying is your total lack of understanding and appreciation of real world pvp.



    1. the BIG one: flying mounts. flying mounts are THE reason world pvp is dead. They are a safe way to escape from danger or avoid it completely and a sure way to guarantee a gank without retaliation. Back when world pvp mattered, you had to do it on your ground mounts. You had to expose yourself. You had to display a modicum of skill even for simply ganking a player. Even a lowbie.
    Now the feeling of having to watch your back is GONE. Well, except for lowbies without access to flying mounts getting ganked by 90's ofc. As soon as you have access to flying mounts the worst thing that can happen when you DO watch your back is there is some dude on his dragon behind you , waiting for you to flag yourself for pvp (=to unmount from your flying mount) so some pvp can happen.

    It never happens though. And this is true outside CRZ zones as well.


    2. server identity / faction pride. GONE. This is a CRZ exclusive. Nobody cares about ganking or getting ganked by random people from random servers you wil never ever see again. Well, Sociopaths and really really bored people maybe. But not world pvp enthusiasts (you know, the players pvp servers are actually made for)

    World pvp is all about rivalry and faction pride. Was. Nothing more enjoyable than seeing someone on your KoS and paying back the favor. Some of the people I miss the most in this game are not friends I lost contact with. But some of my archenemies from days long gone.
    Making enemies in CRZ is impossible. You will most likely never ever see them again, outside of the remote possibility of seeing them in a BG or arena. Why should your guild care about random guild XY from random server XY ganking your lowbie members? There's no reason to let a guild feud build up. Nobody is going to see each other again.


    3. This really isnt about CRZ. This is just another big reason why world pvp doesnt work anymore, and in fact CRZ has the potential to fix this issue somewhat. And that's faction imbalance. Nothing else needs to be said about this. CRZ fixes it in low level zones to some extent but since the actual pvp there is pretty much nonexistant anyway...yeah.
    I usually refrain from killing alliance in pandaria because I fear even more are going to faction change or transfer to another server...

    what we need are balanced factions in 90 zones (although I dread the thought of CRZ in pandaria) and first and foremost: Disabling flying mounts if you want to pvp in the open world. In which way this can be implemented, I am not sure. But it has to happen.
    Last edited by Xolotl; 2012-12-29 at 06:21 AM.

  18. #98
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I don't understand how all the "PVP happens on a PVP server" crowd doesn't see how world PVP has consistently changed for the worst since it's inception. World PVP was at it's best during Vanilla. Max level players out in the world having it out. I remember a good deal of level appropriate world PVP in most zones I leveled in during Vanilla as well.

    BC was the 2nd best, IMO, where I still randomly ran into level appropriate world PVP, however that was gradually going away and "World PVP" consisted primarily of stealth classes ganking in STV and level 70's ganking Hellfire Pen on their flying mounts.

    In Wrath we saw the leveling zones turn into barren waste lands (I account this to the gankers telling everyone to either deal with them, or GTFO). So everyone took the gankers advice and left the questing world for the comfort of leveling from the capitals. With no prey, the ganker population dried up and we saw the decline of the Rogue class in player representation. So what we see the gankers hunting their prey to extinction. (good work!)

    Cata had the same issues of Wrath, with no one leveling out in the world as well as higher levelers all on flying mounts. Ganking was difficult to do, which oddly enough was still the lion's share of player versus player combat. I did not see level neutral players coming at each others. Levelers left each other alone almost every encounter, and gankers were not prevalent because there were too few players to prey on.

    Bring on Mop and "ganking" is still the overwhelming majority of World PVP, though now with more players thrown together the gankers have returned to hunt their prey to extinction once again. Already you see less and less players in leveling zones (not just 85-90), so the cycle continues, because Blizzard doesn't understand you can't just shove everyone in a giant room with no rules. Blizzard's world PVP model is severely broken. Has been for many years now and without change will always lead to it's own demise.

    While the OP did do a lot of QQ, there were still one or two valid points. Looks like he is willing to transfer to carebear, he just wants Blizzard to foot the bill, as the changes they made aren't what he originally signed up for. I don't think that's too egregious a request.
    People would start demanding Blizz to foot the bill about low population servers. Give an inch they'll ask for a mile.


    Keep in mind flying mounts in the old world are only in the game since cataclysm. A bad idea to begin with.
    PEOPLE KEPT ON ASKING FOR IT AND THEY GAVE IT TO US. I remember pre Cata almost every month people asked for it.

    Making unable to use flying mounts when in PVP would be bad. If they did that even level 90 gankers in PVP would prevent those that don't even want to PVP or weren't even trying ot and got ganked and they CAN'T escape. Would that be fair? No
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2012-12-29 at 06:22 AM.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  19. #99
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post
    how is it a failure ?
    Blizzard took notice that people wanted world pvp and that there was no world pvp happening. so they grouped everyone up to give them what they asked for, World PVP.

    I think that the CRZ's are quite possibly one of the best things to happen to the game in a long long time as it gets the zones busy again.
    By people, you mean the vocal minority of gankers that live off of feats of destroying low level alts for personal enjoyment, right?
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasperio View Post
    Essentially, everything that can be complained about regarding CRZ could also have happened if suddenly 40 bastards from another realm all decided to realm transfer just to grief on people, but that would'nt even have caused a mention. Only because a meassure was taken by Blizzard to increase world activity is it suddenly a rare phenomenon that never occoured before, right? =S[COLOR="red"]
    Not really what I had in mind. Funnily enough though actually something along the line happened during my times in tbc when a "pvp guild" came over. Most of them transferred off again after they were being constantly raped on Quel'danas as far as I remember.

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