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  1. #21
    Mechagnome jishdefish's Avatar
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    Hunters got stealth (real stealth w/ the camo glyph). Monks are kick-ass (literally). Combine this with the lack of changes for Rogues, and you have a recipe for a whole lot of players abandoning ship.

    Though, I don't blame Blizzard too much. During the class feedback during Mists beta, I saw a lot of "We're fine the way we are, but get rid of poisons" garbage. Way to ask for the moon, guys. :P When I posted I at least mentioned getting rid of so much passive damage and most of the talent issues (some being addressed with the next patch). I've also noticed a distinct lack of the sweet cosmetic minor glyphs most other classes have gotten and have provided some suggestions there too (Glyph of Disguise is the only thing close, and the canceling in combat makes it pathetic).

    Avatar courtesy of Kelly Aarons of wow.joystiq.com and woweh.com

  2. #22
    Field Marshal Delighted's Avatar
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    I think Hit'n Run seems like a cool abillity, abillties like that is what makes rogues cool. Killing spree is also a cool spell in my opnion.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Chult View Post
    Yeah, those Assassin's Creed games are doing HORRIBLY! XD People love the Archetype, but the mechanics in WoW are outdated and not very exciting for the class. We have no cool spell effects, and pretty much everything we do outside of Killing Spree is either +more damage, or has nothing visual to it.
    Don't pull the AC card, because its just no viable comparison. AC got a huge budget, awesome storyline, historical setting and nice gameplay, people would play it with any archetype as the main character. In AC3 you aren't that stealthy anymore... so.
    I'm in the roleplay "business" for more than 20 years now, and I can tell you that from my experience knights and wizards are always preferred to thiefs.

    That said I don't think rogue will ever "die". They just aren't attractive right now. And apart from warriors, mages and paladins we have some other "not so preferred" rpg archetypes here in WoW. So if all classes would be equal in strenght, gameplay etc. then rogue should stay on the same level as shamas or warlocks at least or even pull a bit ahead.

    Sure, people like thieves, ninjas, swashbucklers, assassins and stuff... but there will always be more people who like warriors/paladins, mages and even rangers/archers for their fantasy games.

  4. #24
    I am Murloc! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    I don't see it, I really don't.
    A skilled assassin, reliant on shadows, that comes out of nowhere and murders you while you're having lunch (or any other activity) with your family.
    How the hell is that not cool?
    Yeah, given the popularity of thieves in GW2, Rogue class types in Rift, Assassins in Aion and plenty of other like examples over the years, the WoW rogue is really the only bastard child here that isn't popular it all. I mean it's generally a hated class in this game. Even when people flock to it, it's only because its damage is high. Due to the fact that it's just mind-numbingly easy to perform well with the class, the second it gets chart topping potential people will go back to it, but they wont enjoy the class, just the numbers.

    It's been glaringly obvious for years now as almost anyone will tell you. Blizzard just sort of shrugs off the feedback for the first patch, monitors the progress in the second major patch then rolls around in the "NERF ROGUE" posts in the last patch of an expac, due to gear scaling. This model needs to stop.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Delighted View Post
    Killing spree is also a cool spell in my opnion.
    Except for the numerous fights in all previous tiers where using it becomes a liability

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    Slowly yes, although I disagree with anyone who says Rogues are in a bad spot in PVE.

  7. #27
    What wrong with simplicity ? Dont we have enough Classes already where you have to Monitor 1000 things so your Spaceship does its Job properly ?. I enjoy Rogue how it is(PvE pov) only the low Energy reg on Assa kills me. But i expect a revamp with the next Expansion

  8. #28
    Imo rogues have a terrible disadvantage in WoW. They cannot use abilities that other games allow them to use. For example, in DnD (and DDO) rogue is the only class that can find and disable traps. Raids in WoW do not have traps, so even if the class has this skill, rogues never get a chance to use it. Generally rogues in WoW are too focused on the combat element of the game and this is logical. However, in other games, rogue is the class that engages less in combat, preferring to use sneak attacks and almost never face to face combat.

    I think rogues are fine now, they are just not op like 4-5 certain specs. Also fear not. When 5.2 comes, rogues will be much stronger (unfortunately) and you will hear people crying for nerfs.

    Life is a series of choices between bad and worse.

  9. #29
    I think the trouble when traps and the like are put in raids, like Broodlord Trash and maybe Shannox even if you don't actually disarm them, is that people just cry gimmick and say its just a way to force rogues in to raids.

    I would love DnD style rogues, 500% crit multiplier and guaranteed crits from behind .

  10. #30
    rogues were designed to build up combopoints and when you reach 5 CPs you can finish your opponent with hard hitting abilities. but that seemed hard to balance, esp. in pvp and it turned out to be easier to balance if you have tons of passive dmg and low spike dmg... i cant stand that playstyle anymore... i wouldn't have a problem with our low energy-regeneration if our finishers would be real finishing moves again...

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by discoepfeand View Post
    Ah, I see. I haven't played assassination since Lich King. Anyone know if there are any other specs in the game with 0 spell effects like Sub/Combat?
    nope not that i know of. BUT frost dk can be played with 0 spell effects. and it won't hurt there dps:P.

  12. #32
    Dreadlord Elapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    I don't see it, I really don't.
    A skilled assassin, reliant on shadows, that comes out of nowhere and murders you while you're having lunch (or any other activity) with your family.
    How the hell is that not cool?
    I'd wouldn't say not cool, I'd say less cool then other classes. That, and the "murder" part. I guess a lot of people don't like the "sneaking up and killing part" and rather throw fireballs, smash faces with a giant mace, electrocute people, etc...
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  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    If you ask me it's an issue of flavour. Rogues are pretty bland, and all the specs are too similar. They need more gameplay differences, more stylistic differences and a better identity.

    See: Rogues/Thieves in every other RPG. Typically you get the Stealthy-Zippy-Stab-You-From-The-Shadows type, the Swashbuckling-Duellist-Goodguy, and the In-Your-Face-Dirty-Brawler types. WoW has none of those identities. The only theme difference is that one deals loads of passive nature damage and one deals loads of passive white swings. They don't look or behave very differently and they should.

    Notice that most of the top played classes have 3 distinct specs or roles (bar periods where people flock to class X because it's OP). Simple buffs wont work, the class is simply boring. It needs a complete redesign, one that you probably wont get during this expansion sadly. What they'll probably do instead is put incentives in for playing a Rogue (inb4 another Legendary)

  14. #34
    jk 5.2

    Infracted
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-12-30 at 06:39 PM.

  15. #35
    The rogue archetype doesn't work in WoW because it would be insanely OP. Instead you end up with a low armored warrior.

  16. #36
    Any ideas on how to make stabbing someone more visually attractive? I mean, it's quite easier to design cool spells for casters, than effects for melee. That's why the rogue will always be bland for me.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    Except for the numerous fights in all previous tiers where using it becomes a liability
    That's why KS is also called "Killme Spree"

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    I don't see it, I really don't.
    A skilled assassin, reliant on shadows, that comes out of nowhere and murders you while you're having lunch (or any other activity) with your family.
    How the hell is that not cool?
    Yeah when you put it like that then is sounds cool but in reality its stealth in and get Slice/Rupture rolling then do 50% damage passively. You then keep rupture going and blow the odd cool down when needed while waiting for mutilate/dispatch or envenom to light up.For assassination anyways. Add in the absurd amount of nerfs the class got going into MOP i can see why the class is going down the toilet.

    On a more fundamental level you just have to look about when you raid. Its like a fireworks show. Flashy lights and effects flying all over the place while you stand there going *stab* *stab* *stab*
    I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    We are at a very low class population atm. But bear in mind this is early in the expansion and we are still competitive. We will scale again, like we always do.
    Though rogues are at low numbers, they are still very wanted for raids.

    They are very strong in PVE, that'S why they are needed in PVE. There are more rogue dds than any byrid dps.

    the problem itaself is:

    Rogues are the only pure melee class. And melees are getting ignored in 10m raiding.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...11100000000000

    As one can see, rogues are by far the most wanted melee dds in progression. Ret palas are at about a third. So that won't change: Raid leaders will continue lookign for rogues.

    I don't think there are more rets than rogues. There are more people with a ret soecc thanrogues, but mostly because holy und prot palas have a ret specc, though they only use it for dailies, farming and so on.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    Whenever I see this I think about Kimi Räikkönen: ("Yes yes yes. I'm doing it all the time, you don't need to remember me on every" expansion )



    Can't you people see that rogues are, as always, slow at the start of an expansion and later on the strongest? Kind of warriors like; they used to cry because they scalate way too much with gear that they were weak at the start (not really, good warriors were always good). This time they turned things around for warriors and kind of left rogues as the real only ones who need time to get better. Not just gear, prolly some fixes.. but you know, blizz would never let rogues down.

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