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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    Thats because they ignored Beta balance feedback as a whole.
    dead on, accurate statement

    they have done this on many expansions, with disreguard to what will happen in PVP until the game goes live and they goes into wait and see, hotfix, patch mode

    in MOP BETA there where ample warnings/complaints about god-mode healers and hybrids healing ignored....and now we have undergone 5% healing nerf....then 15%, and latest 30% pvp healing nerf and it's still not noticeable

    CATA BETA many warnings on rogues opening ambush/BS damage....ignored, went live but that was immediately hotfixed in less than 30 days

    in WOTLK BETA...tons of warnings and complaints of ret-pals and DKs...ignored, took blizz 6-12 months to bring them down, yet still OP

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkz View Post
    CATA BETA many warnings on rogues opening ambush/BS damage....ignored, went live but that was immediately hotfixed in less than 30 days
    What are you talking about here? Ambush and backstab were never hotfixed for anything in any part of cata.

  3. #103
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    in WOTLK BETA...tons of warnings and complaints of ret-pals and DKs...ignored, took blizz 6-12 months to bring them down, yet still OP
    You must be joking *eyeroll*. All those Ret + DK teams... And DAT middle of the pack DPS! Truly something to be jealous of.

  4. #104
    Mechagnome Rec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    We're bland and boring - read people's posts. It's a game, not a job.
    How boring you may or may not find a spec to be does not affect how useful it is in a raid.

  5. #105
    we're not dead, we're just hiding in the shadows waiting until we're op again
    ~

  6. #106
    Rogues were in their glory when you could ambush someone for half of their hp bar, then you just had to stab them down the rest of the 50%. Now it's like you need like 15 cds to stay alive to kill someone using stuns and tricks and passive damage and it takes a while. Guess what, if your cds aren't up you are 100% useless.

    I like my DK, Ret and Warrior as melee because I feel like i can go in and blow something up. Rogues don't feel that way. Then people say, cuz u have stealth. BM hunters have insane burst, I come out of the shadows on my hunter and BW+ spam arcane shot and people are dead before they even know what hit them.

    Rogues don't have that feeling anymore. You need to master control and time your cds and stuns, and it's just not as fun imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  7. #107
    I don't think rogues are dying, but rather they are not being born. For us old hats who have mained a rogue our wow lives, we stay loyal and continue playing due to our love of the character or the class. However, as an alt class I can see the lack of appeal. We are just not as flashy as many other classes. This won't stop me ever though! And people who are saying they are no good anymore, it depends on your playstyle I know a large number of achievements would have been much much harder to do with a class without stealth!

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Rec View Post
    How boring you may or may not find a spec to be does not affect how useful it is in a raid.
    but it does effect the number of people who want to play a class they find boring.
    I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Rec View Post
    How boring you may or may not find a spec to be does not affect how useful it is in a raid.
    Jesus fucking Christ, are you being willfully ignorant!? I detailed the argument of useless-rogues quite clearly in my last post to you!
    - WE BRING NOTHING BUT SUSTAINED DAMAGE

    Here's hoping this post doesn't masterfully elude you like the rest.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-01-01 at 04:05 PM.

  10. #110
    Mechagnome Rec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    but it does effect the number of people who want to play a class they find boring.
    Yep, can't disagree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ, are you being willfully ignorant!? I detailed the argument of useless-rogues quite clearly in my last post to you!
    - WE BRING NOTHING BUT SUSTAINED DAMAGE

    Here's hoping this post doesn't masterfully elude you like the rest.

    Infracted
    Arguing that rogues bring nothing but damage is different than saying they're fun or not, which was my point.

    Beyond this, I'd say that rogues do bring more than just sustained damage to a raid, and I'll quote something Liebchen posted in another thread, because I think he was pretty much spot on here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    Rogues have very good survivability, they don't need much healing and can take care of themselves. In 10man Heroics we love our rogue on every healing-intense fight because it frees healing for the rest of the raid. Plus there are quite some fights where you want rogues for utility.
    As Assassination they do very good Singletarget-DPS easily compareable to any other DPS class and FoK-AoE is decent. Combat is near-OP on lots of fights.

    MV:
    Stone Guards - Combat should be Top-DPS because of cleave.
    Feng - Rogue not needed but Assa is decent Singletarget-DPS on this fight, FoK is good for slowing/killing Adds and they can cloak the Arcane-Debuff.
    Garajal - Assa-Rogue is doing decent DPS, high survivability helps the raid, smokebomb is nice at the end of the fight.
    Spirit Kings - Decent DPS, Enrage-Dispell and Kidneyshot help very much.
    Elegon - Rogues aren't perfect on this fight but they aren't more or less effective than other melees.
    WotE - In 10man you basically NEED a rogue to soak sparks.

    HoF:
    Zorlok - High Survivability helps the raid a lot, decent DPS.
    Blade Lord - You can bring a rogue just for DPS and its ok.
    Garalon - Combat Rogue OP
    Wind Lord - We always bring a rogue for additional interrupt, decent AoE and good Singletarget-Burst.
    Amber-Shaper - Rogue mandatory for our tactics when you play it with one Tank in the construct for whole P2 (Roguetank, Combatrogue Top-DPS).
    Empress - Doesn't need much healing on this very healing-intense fight and brings lots of DPS.

    Terrace:
    Protectors - Rogue not needed, but not worse than any other Melee-class.
    Tsulong - No reason to not bring a rogue, but also not needed.
    Leishi - Good for CCs/Stuns, good DPS, doesn't need much healing. We always bring one here.
    Sha - Don't know honestly due to 3 weeks raiding-break because of christmas etc.

    (everything HC of course)
    Rogues bring so much more than "just" sustained damage.
    Last edited by Rec; 2013-01-01 at 08:56 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Rec View Post
    -Snip-
    Absolute nonsense.

    - Survivability is not a boon to the raid in anyway - its a player benefit. One player taking less damage than nine other players, resulting in the healers still having to AOE heal nine people, doesn't mean that nine players will be getting more heals. It just means that one player will be over-healed. True, there are niche situations in which rogues are beneficial (any encounter involving soaking) but they're ultimately unnecessary for these encounters - fights aren't designed to support the notion of class-stacking or mandatory class-usage. On the flip side, when is another Devotion Aura or Tranquility useful? Always and for any fight.

    - "The Cleave" is getting "fixed".

    ...And that was pretty much everything he mentioned. "Survivability" and some minor trivialities. I'm not going to list an interrupt or a stun as a benefit; such traits are commonplace and if they're to be considered benefits, then I might as well list the ability to "walk" and "run" as well.

    If I missed anything, please do tell. Seeing as we bring "so much more" I assume I must've missed out on something, seeing as I've only listed two things, one of which will be gone come 5.2.

    If you consider "the ability to avoid personal death or improve the output of one person." to be raid utility then we'll never find common ground, seeing as I would consider "the ability to avoid the deaths of several players/improvement of several players' output" to be raid utility.
    Last edited by Incineration; 2013-01-01 at 09:46 PM.

  12. #112
    Herald of the Titans Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    Rogues were in their glory when you could ambush someone for half of their hp bar, then you just had to stab them down the rest of the 50%. Now it's like you need like 15 cds to stay alive to kill someone using stuns and tricks and passive damage and it takes a while. Guess what, if your cds aren't up you are 100% useless.

    I like my DK, Ret and Warrior as melee because I feel like i can go in and blow something up. Rogues don't feel that way. Then people say, cuz u have stealth. BM hunters have insane burst, I come out of the shadows on my hunter and BW+ spam arcane shot and people are dead before they even know what hit them.

    Rogues don't have that feeling anymore. You need to master control and time your cds and stuns, and it's just not as fun imo.
    The one post on here which is closer to the turth than any I have read in this thread. So many other classes now are better at just about anything you want to do in WoW. They have sustained stealth. Big deal, if you time it right and use some CC...hunters have that too.

  13. #113
    Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how well rogues are represented on RP realms?

    I'm just interested if a part of the low population is that when choosing a class, something like DK has a lot of the same character and personal resonance that Rogues have but are more attractive to players.

    If rogues are the dark and untrustworthy class of wow, than arguably DKs are darker and more untrustworthy class. Just a theory :/
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2013-01-02 at 12:15 AM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how well rogues are represented on RP realms?

    I'm just interested if a part of the low population is that when choosing a class, something like DK has a lot of the same character and personal resonance that Rogues have but are more attractive to players.

    If rogues are the dark and untrustworthy class of wow, than arguably DKs are darker and more untrustworthy class. Just a theory :/
    You can find out here:
    http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html

    (US, you can swap to euro realms if you'd prefer)

    The quick answer is that 5.6% of level 90 characters found on all realms are rogues, 6.0% on RP realms.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    <snip>
    but you know, blizz would never let rogues down.
    lol, you've got a sense of humor, I see.

    The argument that bugs me the most is that rogues scale slowly, and that we'll be back to badass at the end of the expansion. Why the fuck should an entire class have to wait until the last 1/3'd of the expansion to be competetive? We get 1 season of getting steamrolled, 1 season where we approach viability, and 1 season where PvE gear breaks us and the nerds who spent the previous 2 seasons wiping their asses with us cry about how rogues are so OP. Every expansion.

  16. #116
    We're not dying, you just can't see us

    on a serious note, theyve always been under pop because they're quite 'plain'. They don't do anything cool or flashy that makes you go hey that looks wow and they're not competitive pve or pvp. Simply put whether you play one for fun, outside of ganking (which because our damage is lol is also lol atm) rogues just dont provide any benefits that other classes can't do better..
    I would agree with you...but then we'd both be wrong.

  17. #117
    The thing is What is fun about playing the class?

    On mages I can say it's when we get that big crit or when we freeze someone to launch an ice lance next that seems fun

    on rogues we hit our usual rotation and then we use Adrenaline Rush so we can do our rotation faster..... or we hit shadow blades so we can do our rotation faster....

    the thing is rogues are not allowed to have burst because of pvp rogues are not allowed CC because of pvp and the new fun mechanics go to other classes (dk and monk)

    shadowstep ambush is fun for me yet because of the reasons mentioned above they are not allowed to do a lot of burst damage.

  18. #118
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    I was doing a LOT of BGs to gear my toons with PvP gear in the past few days as it was AV CoA and IoC CoA, and in my BGP AV and IoC are the only BGs the ALliance has got any chance of winning abt 40% of the time. All other BGs, incl but not limited to EotS, WSG, AB and so on Alliance only win abt 15% of the time.

    Anyway, battlegrounds seem flooded with Rogues. Previously, I joined 40 man raids and 40 man battlegroups and I was the only Rogue, but now I see WSG teams made up of 4-5 Rogues, and I also see a LOT of Arena Master, Challenger and Glad Rogues.

    Looks like the Arena freaks are dusting off their Rogue so that they can switch to their Rogue following 5.2.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

    My Rig

  19. #119
    im actually starting wow again cause of the newest patchnotes

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyrin View Post
    im actually starting wow again cause of the newest patchnotes
    You and a bunch of other fotm-rerollers mate 5.2 will be swarming with facerolling fotm-rogues along with monks and dks.

    Really looking forward to yet another season of fotm-classes instead of balancing the real issues!

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