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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Veysa View Post
    They do try to minimise the risk of failure. I don't think anything like this has happened this year. Stop whining and grow up. Try and do something productive instead of playing WoW today.
    It happened twice this year already. They need to have a backup.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post


    This is the most annoying form of complaint out of everything. No they should not give any form of compensation. If they banned you tomorrow, you wouldn't get this months sub fee back. Nor do they have to when their service is temporarily unavailable. It's a pathetic complaint to spam forums that Blizzard doesn't give stuff for free when they have downtime, mostly just people looking for an excuse to take a jab at Blizzard, and get something in return.
    First of all. Lets agree to cut the labeling, pathetic, annoying, etc, they are all inconsequential.

    A service like the game servers blizzard is hosting, is not liable for all downtime, true. But when downtime hits for extended periods, they may very well become liable for compensation, based, of course on the laws of the country. Similar cases has seen the curt of several different countries, and has been ruled in favor of the consumer quite allot of times..

    So from a legal standpoint, there is a argument to be had about compensation.

    Now from a costumer support standpoint, there is even more merit to ask for a compensation, even if they are not legally obligated to give you one. This is how companies differ from each other, and this is why some companies seem to be able to continue, mistake after mistake, while others crash after their first real mistake, this is Because they (the former) owns up to their mistakes when they are talking to the people paying them.

    It is high time you people (sorry for generalizing) wake up from this "Us against them" mentality that roams these debates, and realize, that most of us are in fact grown people, who should be able to look at something rationally, as grown people should.

    In my opinion they should compensate people, not because they are obligated to do so, but because it would show respect for me as a customer, The few days of playtime are worthless in essence, it is all symbolic.

    Now if they were to ban me, or any of you, then you are within your legal right to make a chargeback, If blizzard support refuses to give one, you should simply talk to your bank.
    Again may vary from country to country, but atleast, european laws are quite similar in this regard, banning is to be considered a termination of contract, in which both parties are equally liable. If they want to keep your money they have to claim forfeit, in a civil curt.
    Last edited by enohpi; 2012-12-29 at 05:09 PM.

  3. #43
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post
    This is the most annoying form of complaint out of everything. No they should not give any form of compensation. If they banned you tomorrow, you wouldn't get this months sub fee back. Nor do they have to when their service is temporarily unavailable. It's a pathetic complaint to spam forums that Blizzard doesn't give stuff for free when they have downtime, mostly just people looking for an excuse to take a jab at Blizzard, and get something in return.
    Okay, so you pay for a bag of crisps, and when you open the bag of crisps there is no food inside. What do you do? Say "Oh well, these things happen" and walk off? No. You expect to be entitled to what you pay for. I pay for an online game to play when I want to.

    Your example of saying if you got banned then you wouldn't get refunded this months sub is rediculous because if I got banned it would be due to a breach of Blizzard rules which you agree to when you buy the game. I'm allowed to express my opinion over such matters, if it was the first time WoW have had to shut servers then I wouldn't be so annoyed but hey it's not is it?

  4. #44
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Okay, so you pay for a bag of crisps, and when you open the bag of crisps there is no food inside. What do you do? Say "Oh well, these things happen" and walk off? No. You expect to be entitled to what you pay for. I pay for an online game to play when I want to.

    Your example of saying if you got banned then you wouldn't get refunded this months sub is rediculous because if I got banned it would be due to a breach of Blizzard rules which you agree to when you buy the game. I'm allowed to express my opinion over such matters, if it was the first time WoW have had to shut servers then I wouldn't be so annoyed but hey it's not is it?
    I'm sorry but this analogy failed, badly. If i open a packet of crisps and I get half a packet, which in UK (since you used the term "crisps" i will assume you are in UK too) is most of the time (nitrogen filled packets etc to keep them fresh), you deal with it. You don't take the bag back because every cubic centimeter was filled with crisps. You are probably going to get 1 less day of your 30 days you paid for. If you got, let's say 15 days of that sub, by your logic, that is still fine. So why moan about 1 day?
    Last edited by Moosie; 2012-12-29 at 05:12 PM.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post
    I'm sorry but this analogy failed, badly. If i open a packet of crisps and I get half a packet, which in UK (since you used the term "crisps" i will assume you are in UK too) is most of the time (nitrogen filled packets etc to keep them fresh), you deal with it. You don't take the bag back because every cubic centimeter was filled with crisps. You are probably going to get 1 less day of your 30/31 days you paid for. If you got, let's say 15 days of that sub, by your logic, that is still fine. So why moan about 1 day?
    Think of the advertised weight of the crisps and not the space they occupy. Duh!

  6. #46
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enohpi View Post
    Think of the advertised weight of the crisps and not the space they occupy. Duh!
    Another reason why his analogy doesn't work.

    Do you pull out a pair of pocket scales and measure, to the gram, whether or not you are getting the advertise 250 grams in the packet of crisps you just bought? No you don't. So why should you expect 100% uptime? (which might I add, for any service is next to impossible, even facebook, youtube have downtime)
    Last edited by Moosie; 2012-12-29 at 05:22 PM.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Okay, so you pay for a bag of crisps, and when you open the bag of crisps there is no food inside. What do you do? Say "Oh well, these things happen" and walk off? No. You expect to be entitled to what you pay for. I pay for an online game to play when I want to.

    Your example of saying if you got banned then you wouldn't get refunded this months sub is rediculous because if I got banned it would be due to a breach of Blizzard rules which you agree to when you buy the game. I'm allowed to express my opinion over such matters, if it was the first time WoW have had to shut servers then I wouldn't be so annoyed but hey it's not is it?
    Be reasonable. You can't compare a physical product with a service.

    If the bag is empty you take it back and get a refund or a full one to replace it.

    On the service side, shit happens. Power outages, cables snap, routers melt and so on. Perfect uptime will never happen and you won't get a refund everytime you lose a few hours here and there. To think you will is juvenile.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    It happened twice this year already. They need to have a backup.
    I haven't heard about any major outages this year besides this one, but my memory might be failing me.

    Do tell us, what purpose would a backup/redundant server serve if there's a problem at their provider? Likelyhood is that it'd be located within the same datacentre and only account for hardware that's degraded or broken within the normal server for the sake of making transition while a repair is carried out much easier. It make little sense to keep redundant servers located elsewhere in the event that there's a network error outside of their control, as those are extremely rare.

    In the 5 and half years i played WoW, i can only recall 4 major outages; One on Ulduar EU release night, One on 3.0 launch day (planned maintenance + major lag after + unscheduled downtime/crash in the same day), One during mid-TBC affecting the Vindication battlegroup (due to a server wide raid on Hellfire), and this one right now. That's not to say they're acceptable, but more to say that these outages are pretty rare. This is also the only one i recall where it's been going on for most of the day (perhaps more, i've not read through the forums enough to be able to tell how long it's been happening), at least in Europe.

    It's the end of the year. More people have free time right now, but this also means less people are working at Blizzard over the holidays which increases resolution times (because, you know, a lot of people will have taken annual holiday leave this week). So, when something goes wrong, not only does it take longer to fix it, but more people are affected.

    Blizzard themselves will probably be asking for compensation from their provider. Outages will be given a 'value' in an SLA, and it's not uncommon for it to be 2500% compensation for unscheduled downtime or outages (and trust me, for something as extravagant as WoW, you need reliable top-end hardware and providers). It's a loss of business, and/or a lot of angry customers when you have downtime, even though your servers are provided by a third party and thus they're responsible for it. Likelyhood is that they'll end up giving a day or 2 of playtime to active EU accounts (although it doesn't cost them to do this, it does mean they lose out on some profit as everybody has their subscription renew date pushed back).
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    I pay for an online game to play when I want to.
    No. You do not.

    This is what you pay for, and have agreed to: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company.../wow_eula.html

    Duration of the "On-line" Component of the Game and of the Voice Client.

    Blizzard will use reasonable efforts to provide the Service all day, every day. However, Blizzard reserves the right to temporarily suspend the Service for maintenance, testing, replacement and repair of the telecommunications equipment related to World of Warcraft, as well as for transmission interruption or any other operational needs of the system.
    ...and this: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html

    IX. Online Duration.

    Blizzard Entertainment will use reasonable efforts to provide the Service all day, every day. However, Blizzard Entertainment reserves the right to temporarily suspend the Service for maintenance, testing, replacement and repair of the telecommunications equipment related to World of Warcraft, as well as for transmission interruption or any other operational needs of the system.

    X. Testing, Maintenance, and Other Potential Interruptions in the Service.

    Additionally, Blizzard Entertainment may be required to "shut down" one or more servers to repair the hardware, or software, related to World of Warcraft. While it is Blizzard Entertainment's intention to provide the Service all day, every day, you hereby acknowledge that Blizzard Entertainment reserves the right to temporarily suspend the Service for maintenance, testing, replacement and repair of the telecommunications equipment related to World of Warcraft, as well as for transmission interruption or any other operational needs of the system.
    You have agreed to allow Blizzard to shut down their servers at will.
    Last edited by Sydänyö; 2012-12-29 at 05:22 PM.
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  10. #50
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    Someone prbly stepped or tripped over a cord.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post
    Another reason why his analogy doesn't work.

    Do you pull out a pair of pocket scales and measure, to the gram, whether or not you are getting the advertise 250 grams in the packet of crisps you just bought? No you don't. So why should you expect 100% uptime? (which might I add, for any service is next to impossible, even facebook, youtube have downtime with multiple datafarms)
    I don´t approve of using analogies while debating, i was just pointing out that his, made a whole lot more sense, if you thought of the advertised weight and not the actual space of the container used.

    I gave my opinion on the matter a little higher up, and i think you might have missed it

  12. #52
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    If you take my analogy literally, you sir are a moron. It's the concept the analogy represents. I want what I pay for. Even seeing the terms and license agreement linked by Sydanyo, I still feel there are too many occasions where Blizz lets us down in this department. What is the reason as to them NOT having a backup?!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    If you take my analogy literally, you sir are a moron.
    The jury just got back. It's unanimous. it's you.

  14. #54
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    If you take my analogy literally, you sir are a moron. It's the concept the analogy represents. I want what I pay for. Even seeing the terms and license agreement linked by Sydanyo, I still feel there are too many occasions where Blizz lets us down in this department. What is the reason as to them NOT having a backup?!
    That's right, make an analogy, when it back fires, call people a moron for trying to understand it, great.

    The servers, in my 3 years of playing have had major downtime twice. MoP release day, and this. You call this "too many occasions"?
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post
    That's right, make an analogy, when it back fires, call people a moron for trying to understand it, great.
    His analogy did not back fire just because you chose to understand it literally, which is a big no no when talking in analogies, as they at their basis are founded in abstract thinking. An analogy is based on a basis of a core of concepts, exemplification, comparisons, metaphors, similes, allegories, parables, and to take it literal is to miss the entire point

    For it to backfire, it would of had to prove the opposite point he was making, which is not what is happening here.

    An analogy is a way to explain yourself, and it is not the argument in it self.
    Last edited by enohpi; 2012-12-29 at 06:50 PM.

  16. #56
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorback07 View Post
    The servers, in my 3 years of playing have had major downtime twice. MoP release day, and this. You call this "too many occasions"?
    What constitutes "major downtime" these days? Because it sure as hell isn't a few hours. Major downtime would be something like half a day or more.

    Anyways, in my over eight years of playing WoW, including beta, WoW has had incredibly few major disruptions to the service, and even their maintenance - when there's even been a maintenance - has usually been shorter than other MMO's, and quite often shorter than their own given window.

    Anyone complaining about WoW's downtime doesn't have a clue. Period.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

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