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  1. #321
    That quote is talking about BiS and you're talking about, mostly, welfare epics. Are you saying welfare epics are BiS? I think you took that quote way out of, well, not context so much as out of the words he said and into other, imaginary, words you wished he said.

    Gonna touch on one point though: LFD made groups harder to make? Seeing as its basically just an automation tool that extends the pool of players to include other servers I have a hard time believing you. I don't remember carrying people either because they were so easy and the mistakes you could make were almost always fatal; it isn't like there were enrage timers left and right.

  2. #322
    Banned Pandareeni's Avatar
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    The game was better when developers didnt trying to please everyone, but did what they really wanted to do.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    It's funny how it comes down to "classic was more tedious and annoying, so obviously it was better!". You do realize that fighting an uphill battle against 39 other people to get an raid going, to get all these people to actually be online at time and hope that half of them isn't afk all the damn time doesn't count as "real difficulty" right?
    Otherwise you could make an game that only responds to half the users commands and half of the time does something completly different and claim it would be a difficult and challenging game. It would be annoying, tedious and frustrating, but truly challenging and difficult? No.

    Man this is like claiming that scanning through the old dungeon browser and being the first to ninja invite the sole tank showing up there would be challenging and make the game more fun.
    I didn't like 40 man raids for the reasons you mention. That was corrected in TBC and Wrath. What I liked was the fact that people actually needed each other.

    But now that you mention it, organizing people isn't easy. But now there is hardly any incentive to do it.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I didn't like 40 man raids for the reasons you mention. That was corrected in TBC and Wrath. What I liked was the fact that people actually needed each other.

    But now that you mention it, organizing people isn't easy. But now there is hardly any incentive to do it.
    You need to organize people for normal raids, rbg and even arenas. Ever tried to run an RBG team or even an Arena team? People are at each other's throat in PvP even faster then they're in PvE because in PvP you're actually punished for losing. I did both, having to negotiate between two groups and eventually deciding who has to go isn't a nice thing.

    I can do perfectly fine without them adding even more annoyance to the whole mix. I like a challenge, what I don't like is having to break down a cement wall with my head. That's not challenging, that's idiotic.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    If they bring attunements back they'll remove them after 2months (if even) again.
    attunements sucked, ever tried to get new recruits for BT?
    dragging 10 persons of which 1 was good and then hoping they'd stay? yeah really want that back.
    heroic modes are great and reduce the time needed for new content


    vanilla sucks if you look at it now, and the sooner you admit it the sooner you see that not every innovation sucks...

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    oh you mean back to how it was the easiest and most casual mmo compared to its competition? oh wait it still is that its just the mmo genre has changed O-O

    your whole "things were hard blah blah blah" loses all credit when you take into account everyone liked those things BECAUSE THEY WERE SO EASY compared to all the other mmos.

    wow was pretty much an easier less grindy cuddle me elmo version of everquest with some warcraft lore slapped on it and a chris metzen yellin FOR THE HORDE.

    but of course you will never admit that because then your illusion of all that "hardwork" you did would somehow be devalued and you wouldnt have quite the same ability to stand on your porch screamin "GET OFF MEH LAWN"
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

  7. #327
    Your ideas of putting the genie back in the bottle suck OP. The best moment of WoW was WotLK, which had no grindfest and epics were not that hard to get either.

    Cata dungeon difficulty sucked, and MoP daily system as well as grindfest suck too.

    WoW reached the top of their popularity catering to casuals in a MMO world where every other MMO in the market catered to special snowflakes.

    WoW mopped every other MMO out there BECAUSE it went away form the catering to special snowflakes point of view.

    Blizzard is now making a mistake thinking that catering to special snowflakes improves their game, it doesnt.

    They made a crappy expansion (Cataclysm) and now they are taking decisin based on a bad analisys of why Cataclysm was such a bad expansion.

    It wasnt because the game was dumbed down, it wasnt because of tabards, it wasnt because of LFR, it wasnt because they catered to casuals.

    But they seem to think it was, and now they are destroying their own game.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    If the original raids were harder than LFR, then I'm the tooth fairy. I'm pretty sure I don't even have boobs, much less wings.

    I already discussed enough of this. If you can't get things into your head, and keep on spewing falsehoods, then be my guest, but I'd rather not argue with a brick wall. Hell, maybe a brick wall would actually listen to reason.

    By the way, you're assuming I mean today's version of Classic dungeons. I don't. I'm not THAT dumb.
    You're comparing two different games altogether. LFR requires no skill at all. Absolutely none. All you need to know how to do is click a button and then wait for an angry person to say you're doing nothing and let the community do the rest for you.

    Good so you think LFR is easier than using your brain to improve your character and using tactics to take down a boss? Last time I checked LFR is all the same every single time you fight each boss it's the same routine every time. At least with the original game every attempt on a boss was different and not completely scripted to the point of a linear line to not allow any opportunity to use specific items to your advantage.

    No wonder in world first kills people don't give a shit anymore. They have been doing the same exact thing for 24 hours with a scripted boss. When they finally get lucky they win. GG it wasn't like that in Vanilla.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    You're comparing two different games altogether. LFR requires no skill at all. Absolutely none. All you need to know how to do is click a button and then wait for an angry person to say you're doing nothing and let the community do the rest for you.

    Good so you think LFR is easier than using your brain to improve your character and using tactics to take down a boss? Last time I checked LFR is all the same every single time you fight each boss it's the same routine every time. At least with the original game every attempt on a boss was different and not completely scripted to the point of a linear line to not allow any opportunity to use specific items to your advantage.

    No wonder in world first kills people don't give a shit anymore. They have been doing the same exact thing for 24 hours with a scripted boss. When they finally get lucky they win. GG it wasn't like that in Vanilla.
    i really wish the everquest players were still around you and everyone in here talking about how vanilla was hard would be teased so badly O-O
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

  10. #330
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandareeni View Post
    The game was better when developers didnt trying to please everyone, but did what they really wanted to do.
    They are doing what they really want now, the problem is that it's not the same as what <insert random forum whiner> wants.
    So those people cry that the game user to be better.

  11. #331
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    You're comparing two different games altogether. LFR requires no skill at all. Absolutely none. All you need to know how to do is click a button and then wait for an angry person to say you're doing nothing and let the community do the rest for you.
    Riiight, because MC required sooo much skill that you could have 15 people afking and still down bosses. Clearly it was hard.

    I won't even mention that the fact that dps rotations, even in LFR, are on average more complicated to learn than Vanilla/BC rotations. Compare Vanilla/BC enhancement rotation with MOP rotation. Compare the elem one (yay, lightning spam). Compare warlock one (shadowboooolt). Draw your conclusions.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  12. #332
    All I see is a bunch of people getting defensive about MoP. We will see how well your mop does cleaning up WoW after Cataclysm. This entire argument is biased since the people that played Vanilla / TBC and enjoyed it quit but the ones that disliked it stuck around and glued them selves on this site. It's much harder to get a point across on a forum dedicated to the game after 8 years of changes and quitting people that actually know what they're talking about. So yeah you all think you're right but the truth will always be there until the end of WoW and there's nothing you can do about it except cry that you have no community except a dark abyss full of nothing but hate.

  13. #333
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Blizzard is now making a mistake thinking that catering to special snowflakes improves their game, it doesnt.

    They made a crappy expansion (Cataclysm) and now they are taking decisin based on a bad analisys of why Cataclysm was such a bad expansion.

    It wasnt because the game was dumbed down, it wasnt because of tabards, it wasnt because of LFR, it wasnt because they catered to casuals.

    But they seem to think it was, and now they are destroying their own game.
    Actually, what they're trying to do with MOP is to have enough content for everyone. Problem is, some people (call them "casuals" or whatever you like) think that they HAVE to do anything available around, while a big part of that content (including dailies) is largely non-mandatory.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    You're comparing two different games altogether. LFR requires no skill at all. Absolutely none. All you need to know how to do is click a button and then wait for an angry person to say you're doing nothing and let the community do the rest for you.

    Good so you think LFR is easier than using your brain to improve your character and using tactics to take down a boss? Last time I checked LFR is all the same every single time you fight each boss it's the same routine every time. At least with the original game every attempt on a boss was different and not completely scripted to the point of a linear line to not allow any opportunity to use specific items to your advantage.

    No wonder in world first kills people don't give a shit anymore. They have been doing the same exact thing for 24 hours with a scripted boss. When they finally get lucky they win. GG it wasn't like that in Vanilla.
    I really don't see any kind of difference to classic. I mean half the raid was AFK in 40 mans and other people either got angry or yelled at them just the same. Also you didn't need to learn any kind of tactics as for the most part THERE WEREN'T ANY.

    Taking all this into consideration, don't you guys already have exactly what you're asking for in LFR?

  15. #335
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    All I see is a bunch of people getting defensive about MoP.
    And all I see is a random forum guy whining about how vanilla and BC was better. Which is ironic because a lot of people on this forum actually played during vanilla and BC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    So yeah you all think you're right but the truth will always be there until the end of WoW and there's nothing you can do about it except cry that you have no community except a dark abyss full of nothing but hate.
    "WoW is dead" (c) some guy during vanilla

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    All I see is a bunch of people getting defensive about MoP. We will see how well your mop does cleaning up WoW after Cataclysm. This entire argument is biased since the people that played Vanilla / TBC and enjoyed it quit but the ones that disliked it stuck around and glued them selves on this site. It's much harder to get a point across on a forum dedicated to the game after 8 years of changes and quitting people that actually know what they're talking about. So yeah you all think you're right but the truth will always be there until the end of WoW and there's nothing you can do about it except cry that you have no community except a dark abyss full of nothing but hate.
    DO NOT lump vanilla and bc together EVER vanilla was a decent game bc was a complete and utter pile of crap with a crystal sticking out of it in fact we should just retcon the whole damn thing and act like it never happened i hope when blizzard brings back illidan they just sweep bc under the rug and act like he never even died O-O
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

  17. #337
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    What guilds?

    Everyone does LFR.

    Guilds are for the hardcore only now.
    Are you even serious? There are loads of guilds raiding or attempting to raid normals. Sure they do LFR as well, but they attempt to progress.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  18. #338
    The game is better in alot of ways.

    The big difference between then and now is the community and its interests.
    In TBC/Vanilla it required alot of effort, time and dedication to get things done. Wether its just fixing a raid group or getting attuned for raids or keys for dungeons, it took time to see the content.
    For that reason, only dedicated players spend time on WoW, people with genuine interests in the fantasty RPG world and what it had to offer.

    Now the majority of the community consists of casual players, players who don't really care about the lore or the concept, but just gaming, etc.
    To please the majority, the content has been more accessible, wich also drives away players dedicated to the concept of what it was before.

    In many ways the game has improved, no doubt about it, but easy accessability and "just time, no effort" system is really ruining the community.
    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" - Calvin and Hobbes

  19. #339
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    All I see is a bunch of people getting defensive about MoP. We will see how well your mop does cleaning up WoW after Cataclysm. This entire argument is biased since the people that played Vanilla / TBC and enjoyed it quit but the ones that disliked it stuck around and glued them selves on this site. It's much harder to get a point across on a forum dedicated to the game after 8 years of changes and quitting people that actually know what they're talking about. So yeah you all think you're right but the truth will always be there until the end of WoW and there's nothing you can do about it except cry that you have no community except a dark abyss full of nothing but hate.
    So your entire rant basically comes down to: "You disagree with me, so you don't know what you are talking about!" ?

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    remove LFG and make bosses impossible to kill for the majority of the players. Well now. Yeah it will fix the community. the 400k thats left of it.

    if you removed lfg now. ppl would quit in large chunks. Only a few left within a year

    A game need to evolve and ppl like you that want it to regress back to the iron age. Well. your opinion doesnt matter

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