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  1. #61
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    AFK - Iron

    Back on topic everyone thinks we can't do that because the casuals will threaten to leave! Honestly getting more hardcore guilds on twitch streaming and getting the game out there will bring the subs up.
    No it won't. Hate to break it to you, but the gamers out there have changed. They don't want slow hard earned progress anymore, they want easy and fast action that stimulates the reward centers in their brains.

    Blame consoles if you wish, I just blame one generation growing up and the next experiencing a different environment.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  2. #62
    I find it quite interesting how people long for vanilla when during vanilla alot of people whined about things we now have and take for granted. Also why do people get so bothered by random folk walking around with LFR epics? Why does it bother you..? I can think of a million reasons why people don't want to join a raiding guild but still like to do the raids and LFR gives them exactly thatm

    All I see is just people talking big about an out-dated concept because they have nostalgic memories about it... Vanilla wow was amazing but it also had MANY flaws.

    Won't even get into removing LFD etc... can't even take that seriously.


    Edit: Who really cares about friggin twitch? It might be me but I really can't muster any intrest for watching "pro" people play. It's bad enough how people like Swifty get e-fame when they're terrible players. How would it get any subs ;o
    Last edited by Frakchaw; 2012-12-29 at 05:06 PM.

  3. #63
    When the EU login servers were not down -.-

  4. #64
    Remember SWP? Think about 5% of the playerbase saw that raid when it was current content (not exact figures), it was a loss financially for Blizzard in terms of dev costs. Certainly I liked the way things were but I also like that Blizz still have enough money to deliver content and with the old 'hardcore' mentality that simply wouldn't happen. Blizz had its largest subscription pool back in wotlk when many people quite rightly stated that the game had been made easier or even too easy. Financially though it was probably their biggest hit. Ultimately they are a business and they will do what all businesses do and attempt to replicate previous success by using the same winning formula.

    A game that I would class as 'Hardcore' is Eve Online but with its heavy grind and slow progression it turns away several thousand new subs every year, it keeps a steady following of around 350000 subs many of which are alt accounts and not individual players, it works for them because the actual game itself does not need to make massive technical leaps every expansion, just a few new models and stat tweeks etc. For wow this wouldn't be financially viable unless the content we were given was significantly smaller.

    So really its a tough discussion, on the one hand I want to totally agree with the OP and on the other I can see the massive downside of their argument.

  5. #65
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    When the EU login servers were not down -.-
    Can log in just fine. EU-Nozdormu.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  6. #66
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    i was a hc raider back in woltk and cata but i'm not in this tier ive decided to take it slowly also my guild is on a brake atm

    as for the topic i don't think removing lfr and lfg will make anything better in fact i think it'll just make things much worse

  7. #67
    Wait, wait, how can something that keeps you hooked not be fun? You play a game, for fun, why would you play it else?
    If a feature exists exclusively to make you play because the game is less enjoyable if you don't do that one thing, it's required without necessarily being fun. Do you think drug addicts always have fun just because they're hooked? If you're at all serious about optimizing your character, you have to do dailies--an absolute forkload of them, in fact. Does the fact that this is necessary mean it has to also be fun? Of course not.

    There used to be very little that you really had to do outside of "main activities" like raiding or competitive PvP. You had to make a little money for things like flasks and enchants, but this really didn't take all that much time and could be done in so many different ways that most people should be able to find a method that they didn't hate. With dailies, Blizzard have carefully constructed an activity that is the only way to accomplish something that's pretty much required, despite the fact that they surely know a lot of people hate it.

    If you're a serious high-end raider, you can't just not do dailies--in fact, many leading raid guilds require that you do these things, just as they'd expect you to enchant and gem your gear. It's mandatory in the sense that the game and one's peers clearly expect you to do what you can to optimize your character. Up until now, this did not require massive amounts of time spent doing something so near-universally loathed. You had to make maybe 50g a week or something to keep up on flasks and enchanting your new upgrades. You now have to do at least 45 dailies a week to keep up on fortune charms, something you can't just opt out of without a huge opportunity cost because you'd be throwing away potential upgrades.

    Upgrading gear is a staggering grind as well, but at least there's quite a few ways to get valor points. If the only way to upgrade gear had been by doing 30 scenarios a week, for instance, then that would have been a similar problem. Upgrading gear is not optional for any serious, dedicated player, but most players should be able to find some tolerable way of getting valor points.
    Last edited by Noselacri; 2012-12-29 at 05:21 PM.

  8. #68
    To be honest, every Addon had it's own special moments that i will never forget and brought me a nice time.
    Well of course there is once for a while a situation where you think - dafuq ?!

    But all in all the game still got's the magic to make me smile

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    No thanks, just continue to make heroic modes hard as nails and don't nerf them.

    BIS is the Best In Slot - LFR has nothing to do with that, let the people unable to raid at a high level have their fun and gear - provided they don't go nerfing heroic modes down to normal level, as they did in DS, then I'm happy.

    Each expansion had great parts that I'd love to see back, but the removal of LFR isn't one of them.

    Classic had the best "world" experience.
    TBC probably had the best raiding, but only in concept - there are a lot of bosses in later expansions that blow TBC out of the water.
    WOTLK finally had some decent class balance compared to TBCs terrible stuff.
    Cata was a crap expansion that had almost nothing of value, T11 was pretty cool though.

    MOP is a pretty good mix of the first 3, though pvp needs a spanner taken to it. Provided they don't go nerfing T14 before T15 is out, I'll be happy with it. There are certainly changes that could be made for the better, crafting has been boring since WOTLK, no more going out into the world and farming obscure materials from different areas to craft good items - just mediocre items available from boring materials. But otherwise it's a nice mix - it's about as close to Classics out-in the world feel as we've seen in years. It's got some solid raiding provided they don't go nerfing it all to hell, at least before the current tier ends - after that they can do what they like with it. Class balance isn't perfect, but it's not as terrible as classic / TBC by far.

    MOP isn't perfect, but it's a sufficiently good enough product all round that I'd take it over a previous expansion that was strong in one area then pitifully weak in the others, blizzard can still put their foot in it before the expansion is over, but they haven't yet.
    Last edited by Nagassh; 2012-12-29 at 05:21 PM.

  10. #70
    LFR makes me want to rip my hair out. The concept behind it is great, spend a fraction of the amount of time it takes to do the normal raid with a decent guild and see all the bosses and raid content. However, the fact that you can basically ignore 7 out of 10 boss mechanics in every given fight and be just fine makes it so that you don't feel like you've worked for your reward (effort for gear) which makes me, personally, sad face. I don't have a solution for it. I just know I don't like it.

    Mages got boring. Which is sad for me because it's one of the two classes I played.

    Or it could be the fact that the game is 8 years old and I've been playing it for about 5 years. Maybe I'm just bored. Which is why I unsubbed. For the sixth time.

    :P

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.

    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    You want all this yet when you are given an option to do daily quests to get gear to help you raid you cry and whine incessantly about being forced to do dull and mundane things. Dungeon/raid attunements are the epitome of dull, mundane, boring, uninteresting, time wasting filler material crap which actually was required to do anything. And hardmodes are great, most of the time they can actually present a challenge, unlike BC raids, which were not, by a majority, challenging fights, just time consuming and ridiculously long pre-requisites to even *see* those fights which was why they weren't seen by most people, so don't ever confuse the two.

    Yes, crafted gear should be ideal and superior to drops, imo, I agree. Not simply to bolster your ego, but rather generate a market where people are willing to spend a lot of gold on good gear they can use for a while, not gear with bad secondary stats for most classes/specs which drops them down to on-par with heroic dungeon gear and isn't worth the cost since the first LFR item will replace it. It will bring prices up for crafted goods and make them a profession again, not just a path taken to get sockets/embroideries/fur linings etc.

  12. #72
    The Patient Lockrocker75's Avatar
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    Why do you all keep complaining about the same crap. If you don't like something in the game (LFR, LFG, etc.) DON"T USE THEM!!!!! Feel free to sit in a city looking for people to run dungeons. But I bet you're still lazy enough that if you even did find a full group to run dungeons with, that you would still use the LFG tool to port yourself to the dungeons. Quit acting like you have NEVER used these tools before. You're not any better by acting like you haven't taken advantage of the things they have placed in the game. The game has evolved. deal with it or quit playing. It's that simple.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Can log in just fine. EU-Nozdormu.
    most other servers have a problem i get to the loading screen after the character selection screen then i get disconnected at 80%

  14. #74
    Away, you mindless parasites!

    I honestly can't believe that you're fighting over something which cannot be changed...
    Beauty > Personality

  15. #75
    When epics were epic.

  16. #76
    Stood in the Fire Wollveren's Avatar
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    I am perfectly fine with LFR and LFG to an extend.

    But I still don't like both, LFR is just a joke. It's ridiculously easy, but you know what thats fine. But when the game starts handing out gear to each and everyone as if completed the raid on HC, thats when it gets annoying.
    LFG is a GREAT idea, but the second people DO NOT have to run to dungeons, it makes people who ACTUALLY choose to group with friends worth less!
    Do not even get me going on communication, the fact that the difficulty has been scaled down is a result of ONE thing, failure to communicate. If Blizzard actually made it an incentive to bloody talk, say I want to CC that, or I have another idea etc..., the game would NOT have to be dumbed down every time a guy opens a forum post and complains that he doesn't want to talk and that is his right for paying.

    I find that people FORGET that this is an MMO RPG, which really today, it seems like Blizzard are choosing to steer away from those two parts.
    MMO was lost when Blizzard decided that (the unfortunately large amount of) players who are not educated enough to know that speaking can result to success should be catered to instead of EDUCATED on the basics of the game.
    RPG was lost when talents, glyphing, gold making and everybody can afford everything really easily (no one really is different) was dumbed down.
    Last edited by Wollveren; 2012-12-29 at 05:28 PM.
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  17. #77
    The game was better when....people didn't bitch as much. Oh wait....

  18. #78
    We are starting to see that the longer an MMO stays active, the shittier its community becomes. WoW is suffering from a terribly shitty playerbase where almost all of the players who wanted an MMO adventure are gone, and the players who want instant gratification and the best of everything with as little work as possible are now the majority. Because of this shift, Blizzard is less about creating the game they want to create, and more about pleasing the fickle playerbase to keep their subscription numbers topped off. I think that with MoP Blizzard is starting to once more build the game they want to build, thanks to new game tech and QoL improvements. But the community will likely never recover.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    When epics were epic.
    Epics were so epic when you could kill MC bosses with 15 people AFK, right? I remember my first MC raid at level 58 on my mage, got tier chest! Gosh I was so epix I couldn't even use it!

    Or are you saying we should bring back bosses that drop 2-3 pieces of loot for 40 players. I guess that did make gearing up....tedious.
    Last edited by NoRest4Wicked; 2012-12-29 at 05:33 PM.

  20. #80
    The Patient stigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Do you know how many people even still raid seriously? It's like a 1% (HC and main raiders) vs 99%.

    There are a LOT of Casuals that play WoW now, and they really enjoy LFR because not only do they get to see the content, they also get gear.

    And it helps people, who don't want to struggle through Dailies, or make Crafted Gear, or find BOEs, get gear.
    Thegame shouldnt be designed around them. If you are so busy in life that all you can do in WoW is LFR, then you really shouldnt be playing. LFR should be a "catch up mechanism," available only for previous tier/s (maybe).

    The game was/would be better with people who have the time and resources to play, not people who in log for 1-1.5 hours for LFR. Thats how MMOs work.

    Go play a DoTA game or Angry Birds.

    And im not being condescending, Angry Brds can be the shit.

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