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  1. #1

    The Game Was Better When.....

    Character
    Did devs take into consideration how cost prohibitive upgrading is? its next to impossible to fully upgrade your BiS slots.
    One can argue maybe the game was better when everyone didn't have the expectation of BiS in every slot... (Source)
    This comment by Ghostcrawler epitomizes what's wrong with Wow on so many levels.

    First, it totally contradicts several years of forum bashing by the player base, and blues, about all the selfish special snowflakes.

    Second, it amounts to an admission by GC that constantly catering to the lowest and laziest common denominator has created a self-fulling prophecy of dumbing down content which leads to demands to dumb down content more which leads to greater dumbed down content and demands for even greater dumbing down after that which leads to content becoming consumed to fast which leads to player boredom etc.

    It's why, every time they try to put the genie back in the bottle (Cata heroic dungeons, MoP grindfest), they see massive player discontent.

    And much of that player discontent is stoked by spin-doctoring by the blues who are less than honest, on a regular basis, and as a result have to go negative and prickly to defend positions with logical loopholes so big you could drive a truck through them. This spin-doctoring also helps to create unhealthy player expectations which perpetuates the negative feedback loop referred to above.

    The removal of the global LFG channel was never about spam it was about making it harder to form groups and forcing you into LFD to carry others

    LFR was never about seeing the content it was about handing out welfare epics (those that actually wanted to JUST see the content were few and far between)

    CRZ is really just a lazy and obnoxious way to solve terrible server management issues

    The MoP grandest (which shouldn't have come as such a surprise to anyone who remotely followed pre-MoP release info) is not really about providing alternative ways to play the game but rather good old fashioned content gating (and, btw, it still pales in comparison to the original WoW grindfests).

    Etc, etc....

    At the end of the day you have a game that's so confused about what its about its become a ghost of its former self with an increasingly dissatisfied player base. If they had stuck to their guns and heeded the old adage that "you can't please everybody all the time" the game would be in a far better place than it is today.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Nathane's Avatar
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    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    Last edited by Nathane; 2012-12-29 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Ghostcrawler has completely lost touch on the playerbase, and I'm sick and tired of him telling me what's fun.

    Ask Mages if we like our class. 99 out of 100 will say they're bored/disliking it.

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.
    So Vanilla WoW.

    Where everything was nostalgia and broken to its own degree.

    The only thing wrong with WoW is the playerbase that refuses to recognize the game has to change to fit the current MMO-market.

    Do you know how many subscribers Vanilla WoW would have if it was still how it was when it launched?

    Look at Rift, which was the equivalent.

    300 thousand subscribers and that's it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 04:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Ghostcrawler has completely lost touch on the playerbase, and I'm sick and tired of him telling me what's fun.

    Ask Mages if we like our class. 99 out of 100 will say they're bored/disliking it.
    Really? Cuz half of the people he answers says different.

    Again, the playerbase is split in opinions unfortunately.

    Maybe its the players who have lost touch with the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.
    You want the game to drive more people back nice and lose more of the majority of the people; What you honestly think the game revolves around us so called HC raiders? What a joke.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Nathane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Ghostcrawler has completely lost touch on the playerbase, and I'm sick and tired of him telling me what's fun.

    Ask Mages if we like our class. 99 out of 100 will say they're bored/disliking it.
    Its about time mages had a nerf. Honestly when was the last time your class was at the bottom of a sim? Never?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    Is it really so hard to understand that your "idea" would NOT be possible to use after all the changes made to WoW?

  8. #8
    High Overlord Nathane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    You want the game to drive more people back nice and lose more of the majority of the people; What you honestly think the game revolves around us so called HC raiders? What a joke.
    It kind of does. I never see casuals running streams on twitch or talking with the community. Don't come in a thread and bash people like you are 12 years old. Making this game difficult will make people flock back to it.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Its about time mages had a nerf. Honestly when was the last time your class was at the bottom of a sim? Never?
    Along with Warriors.

    And Warlocks.

    And Monks.

    Every class is OP in their own way.

    The sooner people actually realize this, the better.

    I of course believe certain classes need to be buffed because they're weaker than others, but every freaking class is OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    Is it really so hard to understand that your "idea" would NOT be possible to use after all the changes made to WoW?
    Or any new MMO to come out as well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa View Post
    First, it totally contradicts several years of forum bashing by the player base, and blues, about all the selfish special snowflakes.
    Those guys are these selfish special snowflakes. It doesn't contradict anything, it's just another page in the book.

    People have been complaining about not getting everything handed to them on a gold platter and their ass whiped for free since day one.

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    It kind of does. I never see casuals running streams on twitch or talking with the community. Don't come in a thread and bash people like you are 12 years old. Making this game difficult will make people flock back to it.
    Do you know how many people even still raid seriously? It's like a 1% (HC and main raiders) vs 99%.

    There are a LOT of Casuals that play WoW now, and they really enjoy LFR because not only do they get to see the content, they also get gear.

    And it helps people, who don't want to struggle through Dailies, or make Crafted Gear, or find BOEs, get gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.
    Yes, it will make WoW so successful that people will come back... Kidding, it will make subs plummet even more than in Cata.

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Those guys are these selfish special snowflakes. It doesn't contradict anything, it's just another page in the book.

    People have been complaining about not getting everything handed to them on a gold platter and their ass whiped for free since day one.
    ^This. Thank you, huth.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 04:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yes, it will make WoW so successful that people will come back... Kidding, it will make subs plummet even more than in Cata.
    Isn't making things super hard again what was kind of the breaking point for most people during Cata? Like Heroics being too hard and the raids being very difficult?

    Sorry I honestly don't completely remember why people unsubbed. Everyone had their own reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    It kind of does. I never see casuals running streams on twitch or talking with the community. Don't come in a thread and bash people like you are 12 years old. Making this game difficult will make people flock back to it.
    "Flock back to it" assumes that the WoW population of Vanilla was bigger than it is today.

    It was not.

  16. #16
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ^This. Thank you, huth.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 04:36 PM ----------



    Isn't making things super hard again what was kind of the breaking point for most people during Cata? Like Heroics being too hard and the raids being very difficult?

    Sorry I honestly don't completely remember why people unsubbed. Everyone had their own reasoning.
    Yes even the devs agreed it was a mistake to make ''Things'' hard and hey guy we your name that I'm going coo-coo I'm still waiting your armory like hurry up if your going to try and diss the so called ''Majority'' I want to at least see your amazing accomplishments within the entire ''HC'' of your armory

  17. #17
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    "Flock back to it" assumes that the WoW population of Vanilla was bigger than it is today.

    It was not.
    What was WoW' population during Vanilla? 1, maybe 2 million?
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Gotai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:
    LFR removed.
    LFG removed.
    Dungeon/raid attunments back.
    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.
    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.
    More single boss raids.
    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    Luckely they don't much with your wishlist.
    I don't mind LFR/LFD - the former because it's just nice to try out different specs/playstyles or just do some raiding.
    The latter because it's just a hell of a lot faster then spending 45min in trade - have 1 wipe and spend another 30min in trade trying to continue the run.

    Dungeon/raid attunements like Karazhan - no thanks. They were a pain in the arse, especially if you had a couple of alts (and yes, most of us like alts to be quite on par with gear). If it's just 1-2 dungeons in-n-out no prob, but not a big chain, it's boring.
    Also , getting revered with factions just to do their heroic counterpart isn't fun (again, specially when you have a few alts).

    Crafting gear I don't care much about (altho I get bothered by the non BoA Spirit of Harmonies).

    They can just scrape heroic modes and find a way in between normal and their current heroic model - so I agree with that one.

    I prefer proper raids rather then a few single boss raids (altho OS was quite well done).

    Community has already gone to shit. Just find a nice guild. I know that most people on my realm are nice and most guilds I've been in had really nice folks.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa View Post
    At the end of the day you have a game that's so confused about what its about its become a ghost of its former self with an increasingly dissatisfied player base. If they had stuck to their guns and heeded the old adage that "you can't please everybody all the time" the game would be in a far better place than it is today.

    Discuss.
    Frankly, I don't understand what point you are trying to prove or disprove.

    IMO, what Blizzard is currently trying to do is to put a lot of content for all possible types of players. Problem is, a lot of people automatically assume that all of the content poured out is somehow mandatory and they HAVE to do it all, or they are "badds", "casuals" or whatever other word that floats your boat.

    The goal is to have content structured in such a way that you can play only a few hours a week and still do something. However, you won't be able to do anything, because otherwise, this will mean that people who play 40 hours a week will have nothing to do.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    Personally, I prefer LFR to 5-man instance spam for top end gear.

    Single boss raids - sure, they were fun.

    As far as different modes go... it caters to different folks.
    Casuals: LFR
    Social raiders: Normal
    Hardcore: Hard modes

    Without the other folks (normal + casual) paying subs there would be less content developed for the hardcore. Also there's a way for new people to learn how to play effectively.

    I don't think you'd enjoy having recruitment issues every time someone stopped playing or 1 to 2 content patches a year?

    I DO agree though that there's needs to be a slightly longer path to character development. They look to be removing the 5-man patched in shorts this time so that's a start. The path has to be a fun one that people can do in their own time. I don't think you'd appreciate having to stop progression to go back and farm old raids to get people geared?
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