The Game Was Better When.....

[Argorwal]

- Half of the specs in the game being utterly useless - Not true at all.
- The utter chaos of 40 man raids - Chaos? Trying put a negative spin on 40 man raids without any elaboration? most content didnt require 40 man until late AQ40 and Naxx, there wasnt BiS lists so upgrades were upgrades.
- Taking a month to farm a thousand gold - Ah yea, those days when you actually used your professions to make gold, although I cant think of anything other than a mount you'd need a thousand gold for back then, and going of your calculations that'd be 12 mounts a year... not bad.
- Jumping around an entire continent to complete a quest chain for one zone - Its called exploration, adventure, the game began at level 1 in vanilla not at level cap where you sit in your capital city all day and wait for LFR to pop after doing those awesome dailies.
- Extremely badly itemized gear - Low item level drops were poorly itemized to make raid progress steady, its not like now where level 40 items are better than T1, you can only look back when talking about this because at the time it wasnt an issue, if you had blues, upgrades were upgrades and that pushed your guild further.
- Complete lack of PvP balance - I hear Arena is nicely balanced atm, 2s especially. Many variables as to why PvP in Vanilla seemed imbalanced, you dont seem to elaborate.


Come to think of it, most of what have said doesnt seem to come from someone who played Vanilla, more like someone who reads the forums alot.

Lets list the useless specs for raiding in Vanilla.

Druids - Balance, Feral
Hunters - Survival
Mages - Arcane, Fire in MC and BWL due to resists
Paladins - Prot, Ret
Priests - Disc
Shamans- Elemental, Enhancement
Rogues - Assassination, subtlety
Warlocks - Demonology, affliction
Warriors - Arms

If you were any of the above specs than you were just gimping yourself. Of course some people "did" use these specs, but they were broken compared to the others.

Not to mention warriors were the ONLY tanks in the game. Then blizzard decides it would be fun to throw in a fight requiring 8 tanks (4HM). We should also go back to paladin blessings only lasting 5 minutes and requiring to be single target buffs, that adds "flavor" to the class.

I believe the badly itemized gear is the stupid stuff like warrior plate and rogue leaving having spirit on it....

[Aquamonkey]

Probably the thing I miss the most from Vanilla was the quick response to tickets.

[Nathane]

Dude, honestly, everything you are saying in this thread is dumb. All your ideas on how to bring players back to WoW are actually the very ideas that would drive players away. Blizzard might gain 1,000 players with your ideas but would lose millions in the process. Guess what they're going to do? Not use your shit ideas, that's what. Get over yourself. All I'm getting from your posts are "Look at me. I was a special little snowflake once and I want to be again." Making this game super hard would kill it faster then you could blink. Then you'd be bitching about how your precious game is dead.

Someone is scared his LFR epics might be gone! Get mad bro honestly. This was never about me wanting to be special that is a casual sided point that is always brought up. Making epics/mounts/quests harder to get/complete will make the actual reward wayyyyy more sweeter. These instant epics,mounts,titles,pets, and other rewards have no meaning. Cool another mount, Awesome another title. They mean nothing without a little effort.

[Elegiac]

Someone is scared his LFR epics might be gone! Get mad bro honestly. This was never about me wanting to be special that is a casual sided point that is always brought up. Making epics/mounts/quests harder to get/complete will make the actual reward wayyyyy more sweeter. These instant epics,mounts,titles,pets, and other rewards have no meaning. Cool another mount, Awesome another title. They mean nothing without a little effort.

Protip: You're playing an internet game, even the stuff that takes time doesn't mean anything.

There is a difference between challenging and engaging content and the rewards you recieve from it, and a grind. Vanilla's rewards were an example of the latter.

[Nathane]

Protip: You're playing an internet game, even the stuff that takes time doesn't mean anything.

There is a difference between challenging and engaging content and the rewards you recieve from it, and a grind. Vanilla's rewards were an example of the latter.

LFR is challenging and engaging content?

[Deleted]

And now all I can see is the mentioned people going on rants with their anecdotal evidence and supposed facts.

Guys, no-one's saying this game is perfect. But can we actually start having debates like civilized people instead of dribbling at eachother?

[Narrative]

I think the game is quite enjoyable now, to be quite honest. I'm having the most fun that I've had since BC.

[Deleted]

LFR is challenging and engaging content?

LFR is the ONLY content possible in game?

Although I do move alot more in LFR than I ever did in half of Vanilla raiding...

[Argorwal]

Someone is scared his LFR epics might be gone! Get mad bro honestly. This was never about me wanting to be special that is a casual sided point that is always brought up. Making epics/mounts/quests harder to get/complete will make the actual reward wayyyyy more sweeter. These instant epics,mounts,titles,pets, and other rewards have no meaning. Cool another mount, Awesome another title. They mean nothing without a little effort.

The hard content is still there. Blizzard just also decided to add an easier mode as well so people less skilled, less time etc., can still get to see the raids they designed. Just because the gear from LFR has purple text doesn't make it anywhere close to heroic raiding. This has the added benefit of them being able to make all of the heroic bosses hard instead of just some of them like Vanilla and TBC. No more BT where you go 3/9 for just walking into the instance or worse, MH which was an auto 5/5.

[Elegiac]

LFR is challenging and engaging content?

No, nor is it intended to be. But saying things in Vanilla were better because they took more time to acquire is disingenuous.

[Nathane]

Whats the point of a game when its not hard, when it dosnt put a smile on your mouth when you get that item that you have been wishing for the last 3-4 weeks.
Just the good feeling you get form downing a boss after weeks and weeks of trys was even better then it is today when you win a BiS item.

Thats why it was so great in TBC. The HC ppl got what they did want, and for all the casual players the "world" stil had this magical feeling about it, that it was some unexplored areas, and that you one day might go there if you gave it your best shoot.

Even as a raider in one of the top 50 guilds in the world at that point, i stil didnt get all the BiS items, and you know what, that didnt bother me. Why? I was there for the challenge and for the fighting on recount and wws.

If you can get all the loot in a short time and see all the bosses within days via LFR... takes the game out of the game. It more like a daily quest then acctual fun/challenge or w/e you wanna call it.

About the communety i totaly agree that LFG and LFR has destroyd it. You dont need to speak with other ppl, its like in Diablo. You just q up, kill stuff, and leave. ppl dont even say "hi" or "bye" anymore.
By removing it the game with become a social game again, yes it did take longer to make grps if you didnt know ppl, but the rewards was much better.
Another good this about it was that your ingame name actully ment something, and you could not afford to act like a retard like thet wast majorety is today.

Only thing i dont want back is the 6 hour long AV q, and the 6 hour long games :-p

Exactly when you found a group in trade you not only got the rewards for completing the raid/dungeon but you also met new people to play with. Now its join kill leave

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 12:38 PM ----------

No, nor is it intended to be. But saying things in Vanilla were better because they took more time to acquire is disingenuous.

lol your proving my point. If it is neither challenging or engaging why do people fight for it to stay? TO GRIND FREE EPICS WITH TARDS?

[worsthitmanNa]

It a great play to learn fight mechanics spam queued into to work on heart of fear because I was the reason we wiped on that boss. I have no issue with it on normal at all now. The boss mechanics in lfr can't kill you but you can practice avoiding them which helps. Also helps helped me learn to predict incoming raid damage and time my cool downs accordingly.

[Thage]

Exactly when you found a group in trade you not only got the rewards for completing the raid/dungeon but you also met new people to play with. Now its join kill leave

Now it's 'spend time playing the game' rather than 'sit in Trade for two hours, spend a half hour getting to the entrance to H Sethekk, wait on someone to meet you at the stone because the other three are too lazy to head there, and head back to Shattrath or Ironforge to spam Trade when the group falls apart because nobody will meet you at the stone.'

I meet new people to add to my BattleTag friends list all the time in LFG groups, because I take time to talk between pulls. Nothing stops you from building a friends list just like the old days.

[worsthitmanNa]

You can still make friends learn to use real id its not hard.

[Elegiac]

lol your proving my point. If it is neither challenging or engaging why do people fight for it to stay? TO GRIND FREE EPICS WITH TARDS?

Because it can be fun, you get to see the content that was designed, with some gear as a little sweetner. It is not intended to be challenging content.

Again, this is a 'game', not a second job.

[Thage]

lol your proving my point. If it is neither challenging or engaging why do people fight for it to stay? TO GRIND FREE EPICS WITH TARDS?

Because they have fun in there and that's the target demographic? Crazy idea, I know.

[worsthitmanNa]

I run Lfr to practice the fights before the raid and learn proper cool down usage. Just because you want to be close minded and pretend epics are the only part of LFR is your fault.

[Argorwal]

lol your proving my point. If it is neither challenging or engaging why do people fight for it to stay? TO GRIND FREE EPICS WITH TARDS?

Why are you comparing LFR to vanilla or TBC raids? They aren't intended to be the same thing. Blizzard has actually gone and made raiding harder through heroic mode raiding, and just added an easier difficulty for people with less skill, less time, etc. The challenge is still there, and anyone actually playing the intended hard part of the game isn't saying it's too easy at all.

[Thage]

Why are you comparing LFR to vanilla or TBC raids? They aren't intended to be the same thing. Blizzard has actually gone and made raiding harder through heroic mode raiding, and just added an easier difficulty for people with less skill, less time, etc. The challenge is still there, and anyone actually playing the intended hard part of the game isn't saying it's too easy at all.

If memory serves, the guilds who do the race for Heroic world firsts have regularly said that MoP heroic raids are the hardest they've come across yet. The only difference is that now there's a difficulty slider so more people can see where the lion's share of the dev work goes, which sets up a domino effect in that the more people who see it, the more use it sees, the easier it is to justify pouring so much dev time into raid development (just mirror the amount of environment work in MoP dungeons to, say, Blackrock Spire or Naxxramas), which lets the devs put more work into raid development, which keeps raiders supplied with stuff to do, go back to the start of the cycle.

[Deleted]

Why are you comparing LFR to vanilla or TBC raids? They aren't intended to be the same thing. Blizzard has actually gone and made raiding harder through heroic mode raiding, and just added an easier difficulty for people with less skill, less time, etc. The challenge is still there, and anyone actually playing the intended hard part of the game isn't saying it's too easy at all.

Heck, is not that the Vanilla raids were harder, the playerbase at time was worse, lack the tools and the later raids were design to be "wipe on the slightless mistake". Not counting about the cockblocking bugs, of course.