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  1. #321
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    What guilds?

    Everyone does LFR.

    Guilds are for the hardcore only now.
    Are you even serious? There are loads of guilds raiding or attempting to raid normals. Sure they do LFR as well, but they attempt to progress.
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  2. #322
    The game is better in alot of ways.

    The big difference between then and now is the community and its interests.
    In TBC/Vanilla it required alot of effort, time and dedication to get things done. Wether its just fixing a raid group or getting attuned for raids or keys for dungeons, it took time to see the content.
    For that reason, only dedicated players spend time on WoW, people with genuine interests in the fantasty RPG world and what it had to offer.

    Now the majority of the community consists of casual players, players who don't really care about the lore or the concept, but just gaming, etc.
    To please the majority, the content has been more accessible, wich also drives away players dedicated to the concept of what it was before.

    In many ways the game has improved, no doubt about it, but easy accessability and "just time, no effort" system is really ruining the community.
    There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

    LFR removed.

    LFG removed.

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.

    Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

    No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

    More single boss raids.



    Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.
    remove LFG and make bosses impossible to kill for the majority of the players. Well now. Yeah it will fix the community. the 400k thats left of it.

    if you removed lfg now. ppl would quit in large chunks. Only a few left within a year

    A game need to evolve and ppl like you that want it to regress back to the iron age. Well. your opinion doesnt matter

  4. #324
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Riiight, because MC required sooo much skill that you could have 15 people afking and still down bosses. Clearly it was hard.

    I won't even mention that the fact that dps rotations, even in LFR, are on average more complicated to learn than Vanilla/BC rotations. Compare Vanilla/BC enhancement rotation with MOP rotation. Compare the elem one (yay, lightning spam). Compare warlock one (shadowboooolt). Draw your conclusions.
    What rotation? Half the classes with a dps spec wasn't designed around it - just look at the bonus for their initial sets in mc/bwl. You can't be that idiotic to compare something blizzard didn't think through with something they have now changed quite a few times since then. Oh and elemental is lightning spam for most I see still with the random proc.

    You talk about mc like you didn't do it at the time - which I also doubt, or you could mention examples of why its supposedly "not so hard". The fights aren't "harder" than today, but I bet with most of the bosses you wouldn't be able to have a lfr group there if the same went there back then.
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  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    The game is better in alot of ways.

    The big difference between then and now is the community and its interests.
    In TBC/Vanilla it required alot of effort, time and dedication to get things done. Wether its just fixing a raid group or getting attuned for raids or keys for dungeons, it took time to see the content.
    For that reason, only dedicated players spend time on WoW, people with genuine interests in the fantasty RPG world and what it had to offer.

    Now the majority of the community consists of casual players, players who don't really care about the lore or the concept, but just gaming, etc.
    To please the majority, the content has been more accessible, wich also drives away players dedicated to the concept of what it was before.

    In many ways the game has improved, no doubt about it, but easy accessability and "just time, no effort" system is really ruining the community.
    trust me if most of the people who played during bc cared about the lore it wouldnt be nearly as regaled by forum posters and most of them wouldve quit god knows i almost quit. so many good things were ruined in bc i hate that expansion with a passion
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  6. #326
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post

    Dungeon/raid attunments back.
    No, not anymore. It would have been more than great in WotLK and maybe even Cata... you could still keep dungeon ones, but raid ones, maybe that wouldn't work anymore.. and it would be useless if you remove LFR, that would be good enough.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    So your entire rant basically comes down to: "You disagree with me, so you don't know what you are talking about!" ?
    Placing words into peoples mouths again. It's exactly what I said except the way people interpret it is the way they want to see it. These people remind me the reason to stay away from WoW. So I have to thank you.

    I said that the people that are on my side have quit the game and the game is going into a horrible state with people that don't see the game for what it really was. The community was better but obviously people want to derail the argument into game design because they can't win the battle. Obviously the game has improved since 8 years ago.

    But the things that have been added have damaged the game in a negative way that encourages playing solo and bashing other players that they will never see again.

  8. #328
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    All I am saying is, people are disconnected in WoW. Both by accident and by design.

    There is no community now except for what we create ourselves.

    Now I don't know about you guys, but as a gamer myself, I want that community feeling back. But because Blizz have to make everything solo friendly it simply isn't coming back.

    That's wrong.

    Blizzard have created a big gap in the market for a darker MMORPG that has a big emphasis on playing with friends. Maybe they will fill that gap with Titan, but as long as we have to fight the game just to enjoy the social aspect that WoW once had, it will never be the same.

    I'm not interested in joining a guild of casuals who don't really care about the game, nor do I want to join a group of elitists who treat the game like a military exercise. I want something in between and I want the game to actually encourage it. WoW doesn't. LFR rewards failure. The game needs to motivate people to make friends and guild raid more.
    Most of the guilds that raid would fit into your description, my own included. And WoW has a big emphasis on playing with friends, the game is way better played in a group. Blizzard just realised it's stupid economical to force people into that. You should maybe try Rift, but even Trion has to cave to the community at some point.

    And to the community feeling: I played with about 15-20 people srlsy in vanilla wow (out of 60 players in raid, and about 100 in guild), we did PvP, sometimes leveling alts together, 5/10/15m dungeons, 20m raids. I knew the people on my server around me as good as I know them today, you know the nice people from different guilds, you know most of the biggest dicks, and most of the rest is backround noice. You know how it is today in MoP? The same, holy shit! (And I changed server and faction in between vanilla and MoP) I still play with my grouop of 15-20 people, the only difference, we now do dailies together too

    Maybe the game didn't change the community that much, but the community changed itself. When people say "my guild/raid disbanded because of LFR" than that's true, but only because the players in that raid maybe didn't want to play in a raid and LFR is way more fitting their idea of fun in this game than a 10/25 organized raid. But then it's not true too in the same sense, as a raid that disbanded because of LFR wasn't a good raid to begin with (not on a community level, but on a "why do I raid" per player basis).

    And another thing in your post is wrong: In vanilla you didn't need to have friends to see the game, the only difference from then to today isn't that you now don't need friends, the difference is, today they see the game. Back in vanilla they just never have seen it. (Maybe Naxxramas from below) And the people that "were" forced to get into a guild/raid to enjoy the game, jumped ship as soon as it wasn't necessary anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    trust me if most of the people who played during bc cared about the lore it wouldnt be nearly as regaled by forum posters and most of them wouldve quit god knows i almost quit. so many good things were ruined in bc i hate that expansion with a passion
    TBC has a few of the worst mishappens in WoW in it, I agree. Lorewise it was a huge retcon/crapfest of all different parts of WoW. Gameplay wise the balance was of the scale (not as much as vanilla but close) and raidwise it was annoying at best. I loved Outland/draenor though, after I survived the initial shock of lorerape.
    Last edited by DieFichte; 2012-12-30 at 06:21 PM.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    Placing words into peoples mouths again. It's exactly what I said except the way people interpret it is the way they want to see it. These people remind me the reason to stay away from WoW. So I have to thank you.

    I said that the people that are on my side have quit the game and the game is going into a horrible state with people that don't see the game for what it really was. The community was better but obviously people want to derail the argument into game design because they can't win the battle. Obviously the game has improved since 8 years ago.

    But the things that have been added have damaged the game in a negative way that encourages playing solo and bashing other players that they will never see again.
    the positives outweigh the negatives and it also doesnt help your case AT ALL when the majority of your complaints are about how its too easy or "too casual" when that IS EXACTLY WHY WOW GOT POPULAR IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    the industry has changed what was considered easy and casual back then is now regaled as hardcore and grindy when in fact it was nothing of the sort when compared to games like everquest. as the meaning of easy and casual changed and things that were once commonplace begin to seem out of place and inconvenient blizzard changed to suit the new environment.

    in vanilla wow was the easiest and most casual compared to its main competition everquest. it is the same for wow now in mists and by just looking at the subscription numbers of games like everquest and rift its easy to tell which flavor the majority likes most.

    whether you prefer either flavor is an opinion but to say anythings changed in the fundamental way wow works is idiotic when you consider exactly why and how wow got popular in the first place
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  10. #330
    Deleted
    To suggest the community is any thing like what is was in the past is farical.

    Now days you can play this game as a single player with no guild/friends and see all the content. Now days you can act like a dick with no come back or server rep to worry about.

  11. #331
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    You're saying that all the people that played in Vanilla and quit are on your side? That's quite funny if I'm honest.

    I've been playing since about 6 months into Vanilla and I certainly don't share your viewpoint. The game is far better now than it ever was in Vanilla.
    No, his wording was pretty smart. Becuase most people that didn't quit and play since vanilla (like you and me) don't agree with him, and the people that played since then and quit, don't really post. (I mean, why would someone post about a game he left behind, that's just stupid. I don't go to Q3 and HLmods/CS communities and post about times long gone, I left it behind long ago)

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    You're saying that all the people that played in Vanilla and quit are on your side? That's quite funny if I'm honest.

    I've been playing since about 6 months into Vanilla and I certainly don't share your viewpoint. The game is far better now than it ever was in Vanilla.
    You didn't even read my previous post.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Actually, what they're trying to do with MOP is to have enough content for everyone. Problem is, some people (call them "casuals" or whatever you like) think that they HAVE to do anything available around, while a big part of that content (including dailies) is largely non-mandatory.

    They are not giving content for everyone, they are bottlenecking people into the daily system. They are giving almost no content for those that like to run dungeons.


    And its not about HAVING to do everything, its about Blizzard over rewarding a single system to sheep everyone into it, those of us that realize that are upset.

    And since doing dailies is a lto cheaper and easier than dungeons, Blizzard says they can do more content, which is a lie.

    They are giving us less content and telling people its more.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I am not placing any words in your mouth, your argument is both clear and lame.

    The only difference with now and then is that the game does not "force" you into a community.
    And seeing as humans are (in general) as anti-social as you can get, that results into people being less active in a community.
    But is it really a "better community" if people are just being nice because they are forced to do so?
    I'd rather have three players in my guild that are genuinely nice than thirty players who only act nice because the game forces them.

    There is nothing that stops people from making friends, joining guilds and doing stuff together!
    I have chats all the time, I always try to crack jokes and tell stories during LFR-raids.
    When doing dailies I usually invite a couple of random people to tag along.
    My guild consists mostly of social-members who talk to eachother and do content together.

    So in short: The only thing stopping people from acting as a community is their own unwillingness to do it.
    There is no community. Nobody cares about each other. People barely remember your name. At least when people had focused on one character people heard rumors about that Kangodo guy and they heard he killed C'thun or he ninja'd Onyxia's Lair in his guild run.

    They at least acknowledged ones existence. The game didn't force anyone to act any way. It was because people knew they would have a bad reputation on the server so they didn't act like a fake twat arse or ninja someone's gear. It was very rare that someone would do such things. Now it's a standard.

    The game is stopping the social behavior not people. The game encourages anti social behavior.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    To suggest the community is any thing like what is was in the past is farical.

    Now days you can play this game as a single player with no guild/friends and see all the content. Now days you can act like a dick with no come back or server rep to worry about.
    key word is YOU "CAN" not you have to. anyone acting like a dick in this game is doing so because, you guessed it, they are a dick.

    just because someone wanting to raid back in the day had to PRETEND not to be a dick or get blacklisted didnt mean they werent a dick the lfg and lfr didnt suddenly turn people into dicks with a magic dick machine they were just dicks being dicks O-O
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  16. #336
    The game was better when....

    The playerbase wasnt a pack of whiny crybabies, whos only purpose is to complain about how bad the game is.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    the positives outweigh the negatives and it also doesnt help your case AT ALL when the majority of your complaints are about how its too easy or "too casual" when that IS EXACTLY WHY WOW GOT POPULAR IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    the industry has changed what was considered easy and casual back then is now regaled as hardcore and grindy when in fact it was nothing of the sort when compared to games like everquest. as the meaning of easy and casual changed and things that were once commonplace begin to seem out of place and inconvenient blizzard changed to suit the new environment.

    in vanilla wow was the easiest and most casual compared to its main competition everquest. it is the same for wow now in mists and by just looking at the subscription numbers of games like everquest and rift its easy to tell which flavor the majority likes most.

    whether you prefer either flavor is an opinion but to say anythings changed in the fundamental way wow works is idiotic when you consider exactly why and how wow got popular in the first place
    Why are you saying my arguments are about it being easy? What are you talking about? It did change in the fundamental way it is a COD replica after all. It's all bad in terms of raid progression and actually working to achieve a common goal. People want things now. It's just like COD you are as casual as you can possibly get but you don't do anything to reek the rewards.

    What ever happened to actually feeling like an mmorpg rather than a game that you pick up play casually like farm vill on facebook?

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    If we list all the stuff from MoP and any other expansion, MoP is going to win.

    Again, read my post. Yes, if you do the list MoP is going to win, because they are doing cheap, easy to do and dull stuff like dailies. All the dailies in MoP are as hard to do as one dungeon.

    Scenarios? They are nothing more than group quests.

    Pet battle? They didnt even had to think about it, just copy what pokemon had (and i am not talking down to pet battles, i actually like them).

    But you see, they gave us less dungeons than any other expansion in return.

    So they are not giving us more for everyone, they are giving more for the sheeps that like being told to do dailies and scenarios and less for the dungeon crawlers that have been playing wow and doing dungeons since vanilla.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 03:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    There is no community. Nobody cares about each other. People barely remember your name. At least when people had focused on one character people heard rumors about that Kangodo guy and they heard he killed C'thun or he ninja'd Onyxia's Lair in his guild run.

    They at least acknowledged ones existence. The game didn't force anyone to act any way. It was because people knew they would have a bad reputation on the server so they didn't act like a fake twat arse or ninja someone's gear. It was very rare that someone would do such things. Now it's a standard.

    The game is stopping the social behavior not people. The game encourages anti social behavior.

    Ah, yes, there is no community now... and TBC had a community?

    You mean the community that stole raiders from other guilds just because they were too LAZY to re attune and re gear new recruits?

    That community? Yeah, keep it, i prefer Wrath/Cata and even MoP one than the community of robbers that TBC had.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2012-12-30 at 06:51 PM.

  19. #339
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    If we list all the stuff from MoP and any other expansion, MoP is going to win.
    By a very large margin I might add. Even when I finished all my rep grinds, there is much more to do than in LK or Cata (especially Cata).
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  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    People didn't care about each other during Classic/TBC either, they just acted that way because the game forced them.


    So that's what you call a community?
    Knowing who the best players on the realm are?
    You have very low standards...


    The loot system stops ninja-ing, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

    I think we have a different understanding about community.
    To you a community is a group of people that is afraid to act like dicks because it will have consequences.
    To me a community is a group of people that act nice to each other because they genuinely care.


    WRONG!
    The game does not encourage anti-social behaviour.
    The game no longer forces people to act social, so they show their true colours.
    What are you talking about. When I saw someone with Atiesh or double Warglaives I still remember their name today. They acted the way they were suppose to act. They acted themselves. They didn't act with a fake personality to boost their self esteem.

    I was giving an example of a tight knit community not about knowing people on your realm. BTW what's wrong with knowing people on your realm? Isn't that what made the game great?

    It was free for all back then, so now you know what I'm talking about. You might as well switch to you and to me around since if someone has read what you wrote from the beginning you would be a hypocrite.

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