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  1. #21
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Not really, no. Gameplay is objective.

    The gameplay is centered around raiding.
    It's ok if you want to ignore the entire rest of the game, the way it is designed, and the way other people (even in this thread) play the game....but being wrong isn't a sin.

    Unless you secretly work for Trion and can tell me they design the entire game around raiding. Oh ok, I thought not.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-12-30 at 11:28 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    It's ok if you want to ignore the entire rest of the game, the way it is designed, and the way other people (even in this thread) play the game....but being wrong isn't a sin.

    Unless you secretly work for Trion and can tell me they design the entire game around raiding. Oh ok, I thought not.
    I feel the game is focused on raiding at endgame primarily. Yes there are other things to do but its pretty much about raiding IMO as well.

    As to the OP, It is very much like WoW. The one thing I love is all the different talent talent trees you get to mix and match. I lends to many different feels for one class. But if you are looking for something different than WoW, you may be disappointed.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    It's ok if you want to ignore the entire rest of the game, the way it is designed, and the way other people (even in this thread) play the game....but being wrong isn't a sin.

    Unless you secretly work for Trion and can tell me they design the entire game around raiding. Oh ok, I thought not.
    Don't have to work for Trion to tell you this is so. How people play the game is of no bearing.

    The gameplay is based around instanced group content. The entire function and existence of playing a class is predicated on group play. One is not required tanking or healing for jumping puzzles or killing 10 rats. Those functions exist expressly for group play. Group play which has a distinct bimodal and tiered designed.

    What you enjoy is of no consequence.

    The core PVE experience is based around a progression of stats through linear content. Content which in the case of Rift that is marked at the end of game as "raiding".

    Gameplay ain't opinion.

  4. #24
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Don't have to work for Trion to tell you this is so. How people play the game is of no bearing.

    The gameplay is based around instanced group content. The entire function and existence of playing a class is predicated on group play. One is not required tanking or healing for jumping puzzles or killing 10 rats. Those functions exist expressly for group play. Group play which has a distinct bimodal and tiered designed.

    What you enjoy is of no consequence.

    The core PVE experience is based around a progression of stats through linear content. Content which in the case of Rift that is marked at the end of game as "raiding".

    Gameplay ain't opinion.
    This can be accomplished without raiding. You just explained how you're wrong in your own words. Likewise, designing the game is the same as making content. There isn't half assed side content with all efforts poured into raiding. How you can even rationalize such a narrow view is beyond me.

    Edit:

    You seem to think it's opinion since you pronounce yours as fact. Sorry, there's more out there.

  5. #25
    Guys, thanks for the replies, they further help put things in perspective now that I also put a bit more time in one character, got past lvl 15, and am somewhat overwhelmed (in a positive manner) with what I've seen so far.

    There seems to be a lot of stuff going on, even more so with the world event.

    The rifts and footholds are a fun diversion during questing. I'm loving discovering artifacts, started exploring nooks and cranies more carefully during questing in hope of running into more , and with instant adventures and pvp being able to provide a good chunk of experience if you find yourself falling behind (and providing some pretty nice gear too) I'm never bored.
    The starting area seems quite big, I'm begining to get annoyed with the lack of a mount (the seasonal mount cannot be used with a trial acc :/). Despite the size, I still see enough people questing beside me (Icewatch-EU) which is nice.

    Small sidenote, I checked out some level 50 armour sets (guess those are ancient history now that the expansion is out :P) running around that town, Meridian I think... do you guys have any idea how awesome looking those sets are, in general, and especially compared to what we get you know where? :O Damn...

    Wocky, I checked out the videos, including the big one, keep up the good work.


    A few more questions:

    How interchangeable is gear between souls? Say you play a melee rogue and wish to switch to a marksman or something like that. Are you carrying a completely different set for that or is the melee one usable-ish?
    Anyone a bit more versed in pvp? Are there areas (something along the lines of Wintergrasp or Tol Barad) or areas within areas (Halaa, HF peninsula) that are dedicated more to developing pvp between factions or is everything pretty much instanced?
    Proffesions - how balanced are they at max level and how usable on lower levels? I pretty much don't bother in wow anymore as you can't really justify spending money and time making droves of next to useless crap that is either vendored or dissenchanted, so I just powerlevel it when I reach max, sometimes just high enough to reach the raiding bonus. How does Rift compare, should I even bother picking up a crafting proffesion before max level or even then?

  6. #26
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    For most specs I think the gear stays the same, making it incredibly flexible for switching specs. It's not like WoW where you need 18 sets of gear in your bags to play your three specs. Obviously going from a dps to tank spec will have focuses on a little different stats, but for the most part you can get by with the same gear you have.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    This can be accomplished without raiding.
    The ultimate end of the PVE experience is achievable through raiding. Like many theme park MMOs, Rift's end of game PVE is bimodal.

    I never said there wasn't other stuff to do aside from raiding. Though that doesn't make picking flowers the major focus of PVE.

    A few more questions:

    How interchangeable is gear between souls? Say you play a melee rogue and wish to switch to a marksman or something like that. Are you carrying a completely different set for that or is the melee one usable-ish?

    Anyone a bit more versed in pvp? Are there areas (something along the lines of Wintergrasp or Tol Barad) or areas within areas (Halaa, HF peninsula) that are dedicated more to developing pvp between factions or is everything pretty much instanced?

    Proffesions - how balanced are they at max level and how usable on lower levels? I pretty much don't bother in wow anymore as you can't really justify spending money and time making droves of next to useless crap that is either vendored or dissenchanted, so I just powerlevel it when I reach max, sometimes just high enough to reach the raiding bonus. How does Rift compare, should I even bother picking up a crafting proffesion before max level or even then?
    - DPS and healing gear is sorta interchangeable. Tanking gear is another set entirely in most cases.

    - Don't PVP.

    - You mean crafting profession? They are useful in so far as what enchants and consumables they grant for content. Most of the gear that can be crafted is "middle-ware" gear.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-12-30 at 11:50 PM.

  8. #28
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The ultimate end of the PVE experience is achievable through raiding. Like many theme park MMOs, Rift's end of game PVE is bimodal.

    I never said there wasn't other stuff to do aside from raiding. Though that doesn't make picking flowers the major focus of PVE.
    Circular argument goes nowhere, like expected. You stated "The core PVE experience is based around a progression of stats through linear content".

    This can be accomplished without stepping foot in a raid. Not to mention that this is your opinion. We don't have a mission statement from the company outlining their design as being only focused on raiding. You say opinions aren't valid here, yet keep stating yours as fact.

  9. #29
    Ironcheeks,

    Every time you create a character, you can see what they'll look like in their class appropriate level 50 raid gear so's you can get a better peek.

    There isn't as much gear switching as there used to be, since different stats encompass more than they did before. Unless you're a tank and looking for dodge, parry, etc. No open world PvP zones/subzones. You have your warfronts, your occasionally flagged open world players, PvP rifts, and 200v200v200 PvP taking place in a whole instanced version of a level 50 zone. So early into the expansion, and with the general consensus that Rift PvP is meh, don't be surprised if more options and opportunities arise sometime in the coming year.

    Professions provide no stat benefits aside from their ability to make money. You're free to ignore them completely should you choose to do so. You're allowed 3 main proffs and both secondaries (fishing, survival). The economy is much like WoW's: lots of unnecessary level-up craftables, but also some real worthwhile stuff for yourself, alts, or characters working on newer content.

    Go ahead and pick up 3 gathering professions for while you level. It's free money you can put toward owning mounts, or a stockpile for if/when you grab crafting proffs later. One benefit of Rift crafting: If you drop the profession and pick it up again, you still have to relevel it, but all your recipes are retained.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Circular argument goes nowhere, like expected. You stated "The core PVE experience is based around a progression of stats through linear content".
    That only goes so far. The ultimate end of PVE content is in the group instances known as raids. Raids are the end of PVE line typically.

    Not to mention that this is your opinion.
    It's gameplay. Not opinion.

    Many common notions held by the video game audience are incorrect, illogical &/or allowed proliferation. The confusion between enjoyment and quantifiable play systems is one of those common notions.

    We don't have a mission statement from the company outlining their design as being only focused on raiding
    Design and marketing are two different things. An artist is the worst judge of art, so to speak.

  11. #31
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    That only goes so far. The ultimate end of PVE content is in the group instances known as raids. Raids are the end of PVE line typically.
    So the purpose of life is to die? The purpose of working is to retire...and not you know, to earn money to live? Which is it? The end of the road doesn't necessarily define a purpose. You want to redefine what you are saying as you go, somehow trying to reason that raiding is what the purpose of the game is. It's not. It's one facet of a multipurposed game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It's gameplay. Not opinion.

    Many common notions held by the video game audience are incorrect, illogical &/or allowed proliferation. The confusion between enjoyment and quantifiable play systems is one of those common notions.
    I forgot that you are the ultimate authority on who is right and wrong with gaming ideology. Somehow we've mistaken your irrefutable truth on the matter as flaunting an opinion. Gameplay is a buzz word you like to throw around a lot, let me give you someone else's unbiased definition of the term:

    Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,[1][2] and in particular with video games.[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,[2][5] connection between player and the game,[6] challenges[7] and overcoming them,[8] plot[9] and player's connection with it.[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,[9][10] and audio elements.

    Please tell me how that supports your opinion that raiding is the only purpose and ultimate goal of this game, or any game for that matter. As a moderator, I would expect a little more decorum than to insult everyone's intelligence that doesn't agree with your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Design and marketing are two different things. An artist is the worst judge of art, so to speak.
    I don't remember getting an advertisement telling me how there are other things to do besides raiding. I also don't remember the designers saying that this game is only intended for raiding. How you can classify having other activities in the game to progress your character as 'advertisement' is beyond me. At this point you have painted yourself into a corner instead of simply admitting that the game has more purpose than raiding. In fact, you like to claim how many people have opinions, but that you have none? I must be asleep right now.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    So the purpose of life is to die? The purpose of working is to retire...and not you know, to earn money to live? Which is it? The end of the road doesn't necessarily define a purpose. You want to redefine what you are saying as you go, somehow trying to reason that raiding is what the purpose of the game is. It's not. It's one facet of a multipurposed game.
    There is no redefining going on. You're just applying your own notions based on enjoyment to the argument.

    The game's PVE gameplay is linear. One levels, one increases the statistical parameters of their character, this funnels into the necessity [& existence] of roles for party play. Which progresses through a series of structured tiers further increasing stats. The final and highest tiers of which are commonly referenced as "raids".

    The only method of interacting with the game world other than through stat driven combat is the turning gear of picking up flowers.

    Logically the gameplay exist to facilitate instanced group content as it's ultimate and primary goal. The ultimate end of which are "raids" in Rift.

    I forgot that you are the ultimate authority on who is right and wrong with gaming ideology. Somehow we've mistaken your irrefutable truth on the matter as flaunting an opinion. Gameplay is a buzz word you like to throw around a lot, let me give you someone else's unbiased definition of the term:

    Please tell me how that supports your opinion that raiding is the only purpose and ultimate goal of this game, or any game for that matter.
    That's a pretty good definition. It fits exactly what I outlined above and have posted numerous times as quantifiable, objective play systems.

    Being a mod has nothing to do with the fact gameplay is merely a system of rules & interactions. Nor to do with the oft incorrect assertions of an audience that views the medium primarily as entertainment.

    I don't remember getting an advertisement telling me how there are other things to do besides raiding.
    I have gotten several. In fact, I do believe Trion's own webpage and videos are to this effect as well. Like whole pages worth...

    How you can classify having other activities in the game to progress your character as 'advertisement' is beyond me.
    That's your misreading.

    I am intimating no developer would assert their game caters to a mode of play over another. What dev would say, "Our game is PVP/raiding/crafting/etc only!"? It's market suicide. And you'll likely never get such an answer out of any developer of a mainstream MMO to that effect.

    What Trion, Blizzard or CCP typically have to say about their own games is of no objective value. It is in the interest of mainstream MMOs [devs & pubs] to market, assert and promote themselves as inclusive. Even if the actual design or work is in practice contra.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironcheeks View Post
    How interchangeable is gear between souls? Say you play a melee rogue and wish to switch to a marksman or something like that. Are you carrying a completely different set for that or is the melee one usable-ish?
    Anyone a bit more versed in pvp? Are there areas (something along the lines of Wintergrasp or Tol Barad) or areas within areas (Halaa, HF peninsula) that are dedicated more to developing pvp between factions or is everything pretty much instanced?
    Proffesions - how balanced are they at max level and how usable on lower levels? I pretty much don't bother in wow anymore as you can't really justify spending money and time making droves of next to useless crap that is either vendored or dissenchanted, so I just powerlevel it when I reach max, sometimes just high enough to reach the raiding bonus. How does Rift compare, should I even bother picking up a crafting proffesion before max level or even then?
    Gear is fairly interchangeable between souls (with the exception of tank gear). For gear sets there are synergy crystals, one for each soul. So what you would be doing is swapping out a crystal to go from a melee DPS to a ranged DPS build, for example.

    All PvP, with the exception of pvp rifts (if they still exist in the game, I haven't seen on since 1.11) is instanced. The closest you can get to Wintergrasp or Tol Barad, which were instanced in a way -- limiting the number of players on each side, would be conquest. With some recent changes I would say it is clear the Rift is moving to a PvE game. With many of the cross-faction restrictions removed, I don't think that there is much world pvp going on. N.B. Someone who is more in touch with the pvp aspects of rift would need to speak up here and correct me if I said anything erroneous.

    With professions, they seem fairly useful at max level as well as when leveling. Some of the stuff that you can craft will be better then random drops or quest rewards, especially if you augment the items. Additionally at max level the crafted gear is a good stepping stone into expert dungeons or raids, and it seems that there is always a need for crafting as the game progresses. However, some professions will be more useful then others; I have found that runecrafting and alchemy seem to be the two that are always in demand. In my opinion you should pick up the professions and work on them as you level -- if for no other reason then doing the crafting dailies.
    Also, if you grab the necessary gathering skills to support your profession(s) you will not wind up going back to low level zones to get mats.
    "You give us money, we give you content" -- Russ Brown, VP of Developement for Rift
    Something some MMO companies seem to have forgotten.

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  14. #34
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherInternetOpinion View Post
    So Rift is "your" favourite game. Thats great. However i gave my opinion. No need to be so immature about another players opinion.
    To answer your questions, yes, yes and yes. My opinion still stands.
    Gets on my nerves when someone says "IMO" when they badmouth something and give no reason. It's like the immature rant "whatever" or people that think they can say anything and say "LoL" at the end and it makes it all good.

    Yes, Rift is one of my favourite games. I also have GW2 which is different, but still good. I also have been mucking around on FarCry 3 for the past 6 hours. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but the way it was phrased seemed a tad "narfish" to me - hence my questions.

    At the end of the day, I don't care what you play, but at least offer some sort of constructive criticism. My biggest issue with Rift is the graphics engine needs a bit more optimization and the leveling from 50~60 needs to be simplified. To be honest, I don't really agree with the old-style xp way of leveling. In my opinion, I think GW2 was a bit closer to the point with their quests.

    You don't see a guy like Fencers for example saying "this is crap" - without saying... "because..."

    No game is immune from criticism, but don't badmouth for no reason.

    As for your point on immaturity, go to my video "A scenic rant about fanboys, elitists, trolls, etc [a Wocky blog]" , etc on youtube and go to position 6.34 and see how much your attempt at an insult works :P

    EDIT: Oh, yeah - another thing... Rift's main focus is raiding. Yes, there are many other activities, but the reason it has such a loyal fanbase is the quality of raiding. That said, I have been happily distracted since release, have one lvl 60, one lvl 54 and only done about two experts and maybe... seen 5 of the dungeons in total. I've been doing every damn quest, achievement possible on my (currently) 54 cleric, so yes... there is tons of other things to do. If you don't do the raids, it's like starting to read a book, but never reading the end.

    I'm social, so I have to wait for a "gap" to get into the raid team. I also usually pass on gear if a designated raider needs it as my raid time is limited for the next two weeks or so.
    Last edited by theWocky; 2012-12-31 at 05:15 PM.
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  15. #35
    Personally, I see the endgame of Rift as a race to the most achievement points. Raiding does contributed to this, but is only a stepping stone to complete success. Endgame in Rift is all about having the most points in the cheevo screen - that's the only thing that's truly quantifiable.

  16. #36
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
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    I just started playing again a few days ago. At first I was a little, "eh," but then I got some advice on how to level, what to ignore, etc. And it got a lot more fun. The quests in the new Storm Legion areas are really interesting. I'm having a very good time questing through...I think it's Brevane? I'm not 100% sure. But it's awesome. It's like indiana jones, with a bunch of mutant animals and stuff trying to eat me.

    Herbing the evil treants is just icing on the cake. >.> Or maybe I'm warped?
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