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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans iLive's Avatar
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    Rice protein powder

    I am currently working on a new meal plan for myself and this time I want to exclude milk. It's not because I am lactose intolerent but since I began working out and my milk intake rose, I have received many pimples on my back and face as well. Without discussing whether it's milk that causes this, which is BOTH proved and disproved, I think it's fair to give it a chance.

    So while I am making this new meal plan, I notice that my Weight Gainer is extracted from milk! Luckily I dont have much left, so I'll soon buy some new, and I just discovered rice protein powder at the same store which is made of brown rice. According to the home page the only negativity rice protein has is that it tastes disgusting and it is harder to dissolve.

    I tried to read some comments from people, and they agreed with the bad taste. Some said that because it is rice it also makes it take more time before the body will absorb it compared to whey protein, meaning it is not recommended after a work out, since your body needs the proteins + carbs 10 min after you are done but with rice it won't make it in time. True?

    I also read something about taking amino acids with it. Why?

    Any help?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by iLive View Post
    I am currently working on a new meal plan for myself and this time I want to exclude milk. It's not because I am lactose intolerent but since I began working out and my milk intake rose, I have received many pimples on my back and face as well. Without discussing whether it's milk that causes this, which is BOTH proved and disproved, I think it's fair to give it a chance.

    So while I am making this new meal plan, I notice that my Weight Gainer is extracted from milk! Luckily I dont have much left, so I'll soon buy some new, and I just discovered rice protein powder at the same store which is made of brown rice. According to the home page the only negativity rice protein has is that it tastes disgusting and it is harder to dissolve.

    I tried to read some comments from people, and they agreed with the bad taste. Some said that because it is rice it also makes it take more time before the body will absorb it compared to whey protein, meaning it is not recommended after a work out, since your body needs the proteins + carbs 10 min after you are done but with rice it won't make it in time. True?

    I also read something about taking amino acids with it. Why?

    Any help?
    I, personally, would just forgo the shake altogether and eat a sandwich if I were hungry after working out. The absorption time thing is silly because it has no basis in science as to whether absorption time has any significance to health or muscle growth. And rice protein is amino acids so I do not know what you mean.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Stay away from any protein powder that isn't Whey, you'll regret having to eat that crap. As for your pimples how much water do you drink?

    Also weight gainer is a hoax, just stick with the regular whey protein powder. Also it's not hard to gain weight, just switch out your low-carb meals (chicken, broccoli, brown rice) with high-carb meals (pasta, white bread, white rice etc.) and you'll automatically gain weight.
    Last edited by Yilar; 2012-12-29 at 10:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans iLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    I, personally, would just forgo the shake altogether and eat a sandwich if I were hungry after working out. The absorption time thing is silly because it has no basis in science as to whether absorption time has any significance to health or muscle growth. And rice protein is amino acids so I do not know what you mean.
    Well if this statement is true, then I might as well use rice protein.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 03:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Stay away from any protein powder that isn't Whey, you'll regret having to eat that crap. As for your pimples how much water do you drink?

    Also weight gainer is a hoax, just stick with the regular whey protein powder. Also it's not hard to gain weight, just switch out your low-carb meals (chicken, broccoli, brown rice) with high-carb meals (pasta, white bread, white rice etc.) and you'll automatically gain weight.
    I do drink plenty of water, but as I mentioned, I want to give this a try to see if it works. Trust me, I've tried everything.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by iLive View Post
    Well if this statement is true, then I might as well use rice protein.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 03:31 AM ----------



    I do drink plenty of water, but as I mentioned, I want to give this a try to see if it works. Trust me, I've tried everything.
    Have you tried talking to a dermatologist and getting some antibiotics? Dairy can have probiotics which would tend to help pimples.

  6. #6
    Stay away from supplements alltogether except creatine, its a waste of money.

  7. #7
    The Patient Monarken's Avatar
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    try a gainer, if you got the cash. it worked for me...

    all these lifters advizing against it omg
    AkA Companiet !
    #Wildstar2013

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Companiet View Post
    try a gainer, if you got the cash. it worked for me...

    all these lifters advizing against it omg
    Well to be fair.. they only lift in a lifting mmo.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Companiet View Post
    try a gainer, if you got the cash. it worked for me...

    all these lifters advizing against it omg
    I use to be into the whole supplement thing. That was before I had the time to read the research behind it. I was not impressed.

    Protein is protein and there is very little if any evidence that the type of protein or when you eat it matters. Weight gainer will work... in that it will make you gain weight. Most bodybuilders who care about health do not eat weight gainers because they tend to be filled with unhealthy fats. Furthermore, most people do not care about gaining large amounts of muscle. They care about looking like they gained large amounts of muscle. That comes down more to losing fat than it does to gaining muscle.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Intelligent nutrition and meal planning can forgo the need for supplements anyway. Supplements are just the easy path, I get most of my protein from eggs and lean meats (courtesy of being a butcher) so I have never seen the need for protein powder of any kind. After looking into it a bit I could get whey protein that gives 24 grams of protein per serving, or I could eat a burger and get 30-50 grams of protein. Even one egg holds ~6g protein, so my morning 3-egg scrambles or omelets gives almost as much as the serving of whey.

    I personally am only aiming at keeping a steady and easily reachable goal of 50g protein a day along with moderate work outs mostly through my job. If I were you I would just look more into nutrition planning and less towards supplements unless you are looking at going the "Buff like Arnold" route. As a start the best 8 foods to look into for building muscle are: Eggs, Beef, Almonds, Salmon, Yogurt, Coffee, Water, and Olive Oil.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by iLive View Post
    I am currently working on a new meal plan for myself and this time I want to exclude milk. It's not because I am lactose intolerent but since I began working out and my milk intake rose, I have received many pimples on my back and face as well. Without discussing whether it's milk that causes this, which is BOTH proved and disproved, I think it's fair to give it a chance.

    So while I am making this new meal plan, I notice that my Weight Gainer is extracted from milk! Luckily I dont have much left, so I'll soon buy some new, and I just discovered rice protein powder at the same store which is made of brown rice. According to the home page the only negativity rice protein has is that it tastes disgusting and it is harder to dissolve.

    I tried to read some comments from people, and they agreed with the bad taste. Some said that because it is rice it also makes it take more time before the body will absorb it compared to whey protein, meaning it is not recommended after a work out, since your body needs the proteins + carbs 10 min after you are done but with rice it won't make it in time. True?

    I also read something about taking amino acids with it. Why?

    Any help?
    Rice protein isn't significantly slower absorbed than whey protein, in that regard there is no difference. Rice protein however contains a slightly worse amino profile than whey, and as mentioned tastes much worse. If you aren't bothered by that then go for it.

    To be fair though, i don't think its the Whey protein thats the cause of your pimples. Weight gainers contains lots of sugars, which for some people gives them those reactions of pimples on back and face, me including, happens when drinking soda for example. I would buy a pure whey protein first if i were you to see if that helped.

    Regular amino supplementation is unneccesary in most cases when if you drink protein shakes and eat meat. BCAA however is a whole different story. I can strongly recommend buying BCAA if your budget allows it. You will probrably hear many people saying that your whey protein already contains enough BCAA, but they fail to understand that those BCAAs are peptide bond which means they aren't readily available for use until your body has digested them and sent them on a rollercoaster through your body. BCAA are freeform and absorbed almost immediatly after consumption, L-Leucine is is largely responsible for the protein synthesis.

    Theres alot of benefits from supplying BCAA, such as less muscle breakdown, increased endurance, health benefits, increased muscle mass, less fat gains. Don't just take my word for it though and buy, theres plenty of research to be read that can explain it way better than i can.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    I, personally, would just forgo the shake altogether and eat a sandwich if I were hungry after working out. The absorption time thing is silly because it has no basis in science as to whether absorption time has any significance to health or muscle growth. And rice protein is amino acids so I do not know what you mean.
    Its hard to make a sandwich that has the optimal nutritional value. Of course, depends on ambition, if your just in it for a hobby then you might not care about the littles things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    Stay away from supplements alltogether except creatine, its a waste of money.
    Oh how i love hearing that statement. You clearly fail to understand what a supplement is to say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Companiet View Post
    try a gainer, if you got the cash. it worked for me...

    all these lifters advizing against it omg
    I would also advice against it, a gainer is nothing more than a whey protein with sugars added to it. If you want that then why not just take a whey protein and drink a soda after or eat something you enjoy instead of chugging down something mediocre at best. Besides, with a gainer your stuck at their carb/protein ratio which might not be the best if you decide to go easy on the carbs or preparing for a cut. If you really want something like that, but your Carbs individually so you can mix them with your protein so you can decide your macro ratios. Alot cheaper too and better tasting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    I use to be into the whole supplement thing. That was before I had the time to read the research behind it. I was not impressed.

    Protein is protein and there is very little if any evidence that the type of protein or when you eat it matters. Weight gainer will work... in that it will make you gain weight. Most bodybuilders who care about health do not eat weight gainers because they tend to be filled with unhealthy fats. Furthermore, most people do not care about gaining large amounts of muscle. They care about looking like they gained large amounts of muscle. That comes down more to losing fat than it does to gaining muscle.
    Thats generalising a bit isnt it? Of course people want to be ripped, but i bet more want to be ripped with atleast 16-18 inch arms and a buffed 6 pack than they want to be ripped with 10inch arms and a six pack that only exists cause their body fat is 6%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Intelligent nutrition and meal planning can forgo the need for supplements anyway. Supplements are just the easy path, I get most of my protein from eggs and lean meats (courtesy of being a butcher) so I have never seen the need for protein powder of any kind. After looking into it a bit I could get whey protein that gives 24 grams of protein per serving, or I could eat a burger and get 30-50 grams of protein. Even one egg holds ~6g protein, so my morning 3-egg scrambles or omelets gives almost as much as the serving of whey.

    I personally am only aiming at keeping a steady and easily reachable goal of 50g protein a day along with moderate work outs mostly through my job. If I were you I would just look more into nutrition planning and less towards supplements unless you are looking at going the "Buff like Arnold" route. As a start the best 8 foods to look into for building muscle are: Eggs, Beef, Almonds, Salmon, Yogurt, Coffee, Water, and Olive Oil.
    With intelligent nutrition and meal planning you would understand what the word supplement meant. Your not supposed to base your diet around your shakes, but base your shakes around your diet.

    Besides 50grams of protein is nothing, from the sound of it your not trying to build muscle either. But when i need to eat about 180-200grams of protein a day and have lots of stuff to do throughout the day i don't always have to time to consume it through pure foods, and this is where a whey protein is handy, and lets not forget cheap.

    Supplementation is about optimizing, making those small changes. Not something that alone would make any difference. The only time supplements are a waste of money is when you fail to understand their purpose.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans iLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Rice protein isn't significantly slower absorbed than whey protein, in that regard there is no difference. Rice protein however contains a slightly worse amino profile than whey, and as mentioned tastes much worse. If you aren't bothered by that then go for it.

    To be fair though, i don't think its the Whey protein thats the cause of your pimples. Weight gainers contains lots of sugars, which for some people gives them those reactions of pimples on back and face, me including, happens when drinking soda for example. I would buy a pure whey protein first if i were you to see if that helped.

    Regular amino supplementation is unneccesary in most cases when if you drink protein shakes and eat meat. BCAA however is a whole different story. I can strongly recommend buying BCAA if your budget allows it. You will probrably hear many people saying that your whey protein already contains enough BCAA, but they fail to understand that those BCAAs are peptide bond which means they aren't readily available for use until your body has digested them and sent them on a rollercoaster through your body. BCAA are freeform and absorbed almost immediatly after consumption, L-Leucine is is largely responsible for the protein synthesis.

    Theres alot of benefits from supplying BCAA, such as less muscle breakdown, increased endurance, health benefits, increased muscle mass, less fat gains. Don't just take my word for it though and buy, theres plenty of research to be read that can explain it way better than i can.



    Its hard to make a sandwich that has the optimal nutritional value. Of course, depends on ambition, if your just in it for a hobby then you might not care about the littles things.



    Oh how i love hearing that statement. You clearly fail to understand what a supplement is to say that.



    I would also advice against it, a gainer is nothing more than a whey protein with sugars added to it. If you want that then why not just take a whey protein and drink a soda after or eat something you enjoy instead of chugging down something mediocre at best. Besides, with a gainer your stuck at their carb/protein ratio which might not be the best if you decide to go easy on the carbs or preparing for a cut. If you really want something like that, but your Carbs individually so you can mix them with your protein so you can decide your macro ratios. Alot cheaper too and better tasting.



    Thats generalising a bit isnt it? Of course people want to be ripped, but i bet more want to be ripped with atleast 16-18 inch arms and a buffed 6 pack than they want to be ripped with 10inch arms and a six pack that only exists cause their body fat is 6%.



    With intelligent nutrition and meal planning you would understand what the word supplement meant. Your not supposed to base your diet around your shakes, but base your shakes around your diet.

    Besides 50grams of protein is nothing, from the sound of it your not trying to build muscle either. But when i need to eat about 180-200grams of protein a day and have lots of stuff to do throughout the day i don't always have to time to consume it through pure foods, and this is where a whey protein is handy, and lets not forget cheap.

    Supplementation is about optimizing, making those small changes. Not something that alone would make any difference. The only time supplements are a waste of money is when you fail to understand their purpose.
    I enjoyed reading this. This really adds to what I have read so far. After reading some few answers in here, I was like "WTF is he talking about?", but this is good. Thanks mate. Thanks mate.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Rice protein isn't significantly slower absorbed than whey protein, in that regard there is no difference. Rice protein however contains a slightly worse amino profile than whey, and as mentioned tastes much worse. If you aren't bothered by that then go for it.

    To be fair though, i don't think its the Whey protein thats the cause of your pimples. Weight gainers contains lots of sugars, which for some people gives them those reactions of pimples on back and face, me including, happens when drinking soda for example. I would buy a pure whey protein first if i were you to see if that helped.

    Regular amino supplementation is unneccesary in most cases when if you drink protein shakes and eat meat. BCAA however is a whole different story. I can strongly recommend buying BCAA if your budget allows it. You will probrably hear many people saying that your whey protein already contains enough BCAA, but they fail to understand that those BCAAs are peptide bond which means they aren't readily available for use until your body has digested them and sent them on a rollercoaster through your body. BCAA are freeform and absorbed almost immediatly after consumption, L-Leucine is is largely responsible for the protein synthesis.

    Theres alot of benefits from supplying BCAA, such as less muscle breakdown, increased endurance, health benefits, increased muscle mass, less fat gains. Don't just take my word for it though and buy, theres plenty of research to be read that can explain it way better than i can.



    Its hard to make a sandwich that has the optimal nutritional value. Of course, depends on ambition, if your just in it for a hobby then you might not care about the littles things.



    Oh how i love hearing that statement. You clearly fail to understand what a supplement is to say that.



    I would also advice against it, a gainer is nothing more than a whey protein with sugars added to it. If you want that then why not just take a whey protein and drink a soda after or eat something you enjoy instead of chugging down something mediocre at best. Besides, with a gainer your stuck at their carb/protein ratio which might not be the best if you decide to go easy on the carbs or preparing for a cut. If you really want something like that, but your Carbs individually so you can mix them with your protein so you can decide your macro ratios. Alot cheaper too and better tasting.



    Thats generalising a bit isnt it? Of course people want to be ripped, but i bet more want to be ripped with atleast 16-18 inch arms and a buffed 6 pack than they want to be ripped with 10inch arms and a six pack that only exists cause their body fat is 6%.



    With intelligent nutrition and meal planning you would understand what the word supplement meant. Your not supposed to base your diet around your shakes, but base your shakes around your diet.

    Besides 50grams of protein is nothing, from the sound of it your not trying to build muscle either. But when i need to eat about 180-200grams of protein a day and have lots of stuff to do throughout the day i don't always have to time to consume it through pure foods, and this is where a whey protein is handy, and lets not forget cheap.

    Supplementation is about optimizing, making those small changes. Not something that alone would make any difference. The only time supplements are a waste of money is when you fail to understand their purpose.
    Not all whey protein is comprised of poly-peptides. You can buy whey that is "free form" or with digestive enzymes. But in any event, "free form" protein needs to be digested just like poly-peptides. The difference is time of digestion. Yes, your body can digest free form protein faster than poly-peptides. But your body does not need to digest proteins that quickly. Your body maintains a steady state of amino acids in it. When you eat protein, your body doesn't just get rid of the excess amino acids unless it is a RIDICULOUS amount of excessive aminos. You can be eating 300-400 grams of protein a day and your body would not dispose of it. Your body would have a large amount of protein in the blood stream which it could then utilize when needed. If it needed to, it could utilize it for energy.

    Your body does not use the protein you eat after your workout for muscle growth except to the extent that your body runs out of amino acids (in which case it should have had time to digest the poly-peptides in any proteins you ate). It utilizes the protein you have been eating for the past day. If you are excising for hours on end, it may make sense to have a fast absorbing protein so that you don't run your blood stream dry. It may be equally useful to have a slow digesting protein so that your body is fed throughout your workout. But, honestly, why would you micromanage such things unless your livelihood depended upon it? Focusing on the science when the science is not particularly well done is neurotic. Intelligent scientists and people with money care a lot more about curing cancer than they do about helping you develop 19 inch arms without steroids. How could you possibly trust the science that is funded by the supplement industry which, itself, is hardly moving on the issue in question?

    I know the purpose of supplements. The purpose of supplements is to sell snake oil. Can you use supplements intelligently? Of course. In the same way that I could use cottage cheese, lean hamburger meat, chicken breast, and vegetables intelligently. I can also use those things unintelligently. Supplements are food.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2012-12-30 at 07:48 PM.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    With intelligent nutrition and meal planning you would understand what the word supplement meant. Your not supposed to base your diet around your shakes, but base your shakes around your diet.

    Besides 50grams of protein is nothing, from the sound of it your not trying to build muscle either. But when i need to eat about 180-200grams of protein a day and have lots of stuff to do throughout the day i don't always have to time to consume it through pure foods, and this is where a whey protein is handy, and lets not forget cheap.

    Supplementation is about optimizing, making those small changes. Not something that alone would make any difference. The only time supplements are a waste of money is when you fail to understand their purpose.
    I clearly understand what supplement means. I also clearly understand that if you don't eat healthy and depend on supplements that you will greatly regret it. I'm not trying to build bulging muscles and I don't spend all day doing heavy manual labor. I do moderate manual labor with moderate to high precision and dexterity needed (as far as work force and the non-martial arts go at least). 50 Grams of protein a day is enough for what I need, but it is also the minimum I try for a day, usually far exceeding it because of the sheer amount of protein in beef (which I can get very cheap and sometimes free). Time to consume is nothing, if you don't have much time for sit down meals carry some sticks of jerky with you. If you don't have the time or ability to eat correctly and intelligently then you aren't in a position where you need the muscles you want.

    tldr: I build for needs, as long as I'm not breaking 15% bodyfat I am fairly satisfied with myself. If you want to look the terminator you need to first make certain that you have the time and money to put into being able to look like that while staying healthy. Just loading yourself down with protein is going to turn south if you don't have the time to use it. Especially since he mentioned whey protein, that if not used turns to glucose (aka: sugar) and will add to your fat, not take it away. I suggested looking more into meal planning and nutrition and getting away from supplements because it is healthier by far to have a balanced diet with the things you need, than an unhealthy diet with supplements tricking you into thinking you are getting everything you need how you need it. It does go the other way though, such as people telling you that you need to drink 8 glasses of water a day, when in reality that only accounts for total consumption of water, most of which is gained through food and other drinks, not only water.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Not all whey protein is comprised of poly-peptides. You can buy whey that is "free form" or with digestive enzymes. But in any event, "free form" protein needs to be digested just like poly-peptides. The difference is time of digestion. Yes, your body can digest free form protein faster than poly-peptides. But your body does not need to digest proteins that quickly. Your body maintains a steady state of amino acids in it. When you eat protein, your body doesn't just get rid of the excess amino acids unless it is a RIDICULOUS amount of excessive aminos. You can be eating 300-400 grams of protein a day and your body would not dispose of it. Your body would have a large amount of protein in the blood stream which it could then utilize when needed. If it needed to, it could utilize it for energy.

    Your body does not use the protein you eat after your workout for muscle growth except to the extent that your body runs out of amino acids (in which case it should have had time to digest the poly-peptides in any proteins you ate). It utilizes the protein you have been eating for the past day. If you are excising for hours on end, it may make sense to have a fast absorbing protein so that you don't run your blood stream dry. It may be equally useful to have a slow digesting protein so that your body is fed throughout your workout. But, honestly, why would you micromanage such things unless your livelihood depended upon it? Focusing on the science when the science is not particularly well done is neurotic. Intelligent scientists and people with money care a lot more about curing cancer than they do about helping you develop 19 inch arms without steroids. How could you possibly trust the science that is funded by the supplement industry which, itself, is hardly moving on the issue in question?

    I know the purpose of supplements. The purpose of supplements is to sell snake oil. Can you use supplements intelligently? Of course. In the same way that I could use cottage cheese, lean hamburger meat, chicken breast, and vegetables intelligently. I can also use those things unintelligently. Supplements are food.
    Because a protein powder is added with digestive enzymes doesn't mean the amino acids will be free form when you consume. It just means that some of the nutrition is better available for your body upon comsumption. Its a marketing fuss at most, doesn't make much of a difference.

    Sorry, but your long post clearly illustrates that you don't know much about the subject. Your body doesn't use the protein you consume for days. You peak insulin response shortly after workout which results in better use of consumed nutritions, why for example creatine is best consumed at that moment. BCAA and peptiode bond amino acids act very differently.

    Your last comments are stupid beyond stupid. 'Intelligent scientists and people with money care a lot more about curing cancer than they do about helping you develop 19 inch arms without steroids. How could you possibly trust the science that is funded by the supplement industry which, itself, is hardly moving on the issue in question?'

    I hope you know that there are many kinds of science, people educated in food processes doesn't cure cancer no matter how much money they have. Besides what is there to trust, we're talking about supplements, they act like what we learn in elementary school, it's not medication we're talking about which me and you have no clue about. We're talking macros nutritients and simple physiological science. Protein powder is protein, if you buy it expecting more its your own fault beliving what some salesman might boast it to be.

    Find something to back up your claims or you arguments hold no water, heres a mix of different BCAA researches: http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Supplements/BCAA.html
    or you can find some stuff by Layne norton, hes a Ph.D dude in protein synthesis, i think he's a pretty solid guy to trust.

    Heres something from Layne about BCAA

    "Despite the numerous positive benefits to BCAA supplementation, there are many skeptics who suggest that BCAAs are overpriced and that one can just increase their consumption of whey protein which is rich in BCAAs. Unfortunately this is not the case. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion & absorbed into the bloodstream to exert their effects. Even though whey protein is relatively fast digesting, it still takes several hours for all the amino acids to be liberated & absorbed into the bloodstream. BCAAs in supplement form however, are free form BCAAs and require no digestion and are therefore rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to a much greater extent than peptide bound amino acids. Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels of BCAAs to a much greater extent than a 30g dose of whey protein, impacting protein synthesis and protein degradation to a much greater degree. The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver, therefore an oral supplement is more like a BCAA injection since it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    I clearly understand what supplement means. I also clearly understand that if you don't eat healthy and depend on supplements that you will greatly regret it. I'm not trying to build bulging muscles and I don't spend all day doing heavy manual labor. I do moderate manual labor with moderate to high precision and dexterity needed (as far as work force and the non-martial arts go at least). 50 Grams of protein a day is enough for what I need, but it is also the minimum I try for a day, usually far exceeding it because of the sheer amount of protein in beef (which I can get very cheap and sometimes free). Time to consume is nothing, if you don't have much time for sit down meals carry some sticks of jerky with you. If you don't have the time or ability to eat correctly and intelligently then you aren't in a position where you need the muscles you want.

    tldr: I build for needs, as long as I'm not breaking 15% bodyfat I am fairly satisfied with myself. If you want to look the terminator you need to first make certain that you have the time and money to put into being able to look like that while staying healthy. Just loading yourself down with protein is going to turn south if you don't have the time to use it. Especially since he mentioned whey protein, that if not used turns to glucose (aka: sugar) and will add to your fat, not take it away. I suggested looking more into meal planning and nutrition and getting away from supplements because it is healthier by far to have a balanced diet with the things you need, than an unhealthy diet with supplements tricking you into thinking you are getting everything you need how you need it. It does go the other way though, such as people telling you that you need to drink 8 glasses of water a day, when in reality that only accounts for total consumption of water, most of which is gained through food and other drinks, not only water.
    Your defending yourself against an argument i never made. I agree with you for most part, eating regular foods is favorable. But some stuff are just possible to get through food alone.

    Whey protein is by far the cheapest source of protein where i live which is favorable when i'm a not so rich university student. Whey is a lot more convinient than packing myself with beef and easier, Whey has a better bioavailability than most other protein sources including meat and a better amino profile.

    'than an unhealthy diet with supplements tricking you into thinking you are getting everything you need how you need it'

    Where have i ever said to have a unhealthy diet, again look at the word supplement, look it up, what does it mean? Right. Its a supplement to a already competent diet. Its you again who are totally misunderstanding the concept. I have NEVER seen a whey protein which states it has everything i need, they state they have some high quality ass protein, which is true cause you don't get a beef with the same protein profile.

    I follow a strict diet, no need to talk to me about eating intelligently, but i most meanwhile accept that my studies, work and training has its limits. Supplements help me make sure my macros are on target, sure i could get my protein from elsewhere but at what cost? You just don't find a food with 78grams of protein, 2 carbs and 4 grams of fat per 100. When i want my protein, with little to not carbs and fat, where else should i turn to?

    Oh and "Especially since he mentioned whey protein, that if not used turns to glucose (aka: sugar) and will add to your fat, not take it away"

    What the ...? Whey doesn't turn into glucose. And who has ever said that it will remove fat? Nobody, nobody ever. The only time whey protein increases fat storage is when your in calorie surplus, but what does that have to do with anything? You could eat carbs only and gain fat, you could eat carbs only and lose fat, you could eat protein only and gain fat and you could eat protein only and lose fat.
    Last edited by Labze; 2012-12-30 at 11:26 PM.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post

    Oh and "Especially since he mentioned whey protein, that if not used turns to glucose (aka: sugar) and will add to your fat, not take it away"

    What the ...? Whey doesn't turn into glucose. And who has ever said that it will remove fat? Nobody, nobody ever. The only time whey protein increases fat storage is when your in calorie surplus, but what does that have to do with anything? You could eat carbs only and gain fat, you could eat carbs only and lose fat, you could eat protein only and gain fat and you could eat protein only and lose fat.
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...-into-glucose/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027
    http://lowcarb4u.blogspot.com/2009/0...se-levels.html
    http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nut.../a/protein.htm

    Want more links? Protein turns into Glucose. Learn biology before making statements back. The OP posted that he was changing his diet to improve his looks, specifically reduction of pimples. Pimples can be caused by hormonal imbalances which can be caused by weird supplements and being fat. Though really I merely said that it was converted to fat if not used, so unless he was attempting to become fat for some reason, using protein powders in excess which can merely mean taking them when you don't need to, can cause weight gain unless on a low carb/calorie diets because the body has no real way to store the excess efficiently.

    I merely reinforced my opinion because of the condescending way you responded to my initial post, looking down and being insulting to me while agreeing. Though I will say if you are aiming for 200g of protein a day every day, you are nowhere near a normal lifter, are using way too much protein, or are just trying to bullshit to sound superior. I'm poor as hell so I aim for at least 50 as I don't do any special strength training and 50g is only slightly below the normal for healthy nutrition at my current weight. I should be getting 66g, and I generally match or exceed that, low goals make certain that I at least get close as there are days I feel like crap or forget to eat period so at least I have one goal to hit and stay mostly healthy. As for you:

    estimate our minimum daily protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in kilograms by .8. One prominent researcher in the field recommends 1.2 to 1.4 grams per kilogram of body weight per day for endurance exercisers and 1.7 to 1.8 grams per kg per day for heavy strength training.
    Unless you are an endurance exerciser or heavy strength trainer, which I doubt because you have already stated that you don't have time to eat to match your needs... You would need to weigh 111kg (245lb) at the very least as a heavy strength lifter or 142kg (313lbs) for an endurance trainer. Assuming you are just a normal college kid like you claim, 200g of protein is sufficient for someone 250kg (551lbs)... in which case you would be nowhere near a normal college kid, you would be either the strongest man in the world or someone who can barely fit through doors. In any case, you are either far beyond normal lifting, flat out lying, or using entirely too much protein for your needs.

  17. #17
    Lets start on the protein intake matter. I might not need as much protein as i take, but thats what fit my macros with my current diet. I am not your average lifter no, i take it above hobby level. I am close to 80 kg of lean mass at 171cm. Protein intake is a highly debatable, some says 1.2 gram per kg is enough, other says 2,5g. If one is more correct than the other i cannot say, but my diet is as it is and its planned by a danish expert who has helped several danish national bodybuilding champions.

    Besides i never said i can't eat to match my needs, i just say i plan my supplements around my needs. I find it hard to probrably discuss this with you if you aren't a lifter yourself. Of course supplements would be a waste for you if you have no intentions on packing on muscle, so why even go there. Supplements just gives oppurtunities to optimize nutitrition that cant be done, or atleast wouldnt be convinient with regular foods. Besides, supplements such as creatine arent just possible to get through your foods in the amounts you need, BCAAs not possible. Beta-alanine, not possible either. Should we begin to say that caffeine is a waste of money as well?

    I had the glucose wrong, but still stand by my statement. It's nothing to worry about, especially when consuming his proteins with most likely a ratio of 3:1 (carbs/protein). There are several reasons to why he get his pimples, im still putting my money on the gainer because of the sugars. I know some people get pimples from normal whey as well and it can be caused by lots of stuff, but i doubt in many cases its the blood glucose level.

    I hope i haven't insulted you, thats in no way your intention, however it seems like you lash out after me. Its not cool being called a liar, neither is it good for you to tell me to learn biology when in the same paragraph there are several errors, most the last.

    "Though really I merely said that it was converted to fat if not used, so unless he was attempting to become fat for some reason, using protein powders in excess which can merely mean taking them when you don't need to, can cause weight gain unless on a low carb/calorie diets because the body has no real way to store the excess efficiently."

    Not all relating to being incorrect, but i would assume the reason he uses a gainer is to take on weight which is required in order to build muscle. So yes, hes most likely building up some fat as well. Using protein powders in excess does not form fat, i have no idea where you have this from. Whey acts like any other thing you would consume, no different. The only time fat would be stored is if he drank a shake or two which put him in a calorie surplus. But the exact same thing would happen if he ate a beef, drank some milk, or had a soda. So what your saying is straight wrong.
    Last edited by Labze; 2012-12-31 at 02:08 AM.

  18. #18
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    The last time I was reading about dairy and nutrition, someone mentioned "egg protein powder" for basically this same issue. I don't know anything about pros and cons of different protein powders; this is just a factoid I remembered, and didn't see anyone else in the thread mention yet. Egg has to be better than rice though, right?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Lets start on the protein intake matter. I might not need as much protein as i take, but thats what fit my macros with my current diet. I am not your average lifter no, i take it above hobby level. I am close to 80 kg of lean mass at 171cm. Protein intake is a highly debatable, some says 1.2 gram per kg is enough, other says 2,5g. If one is more correct than the other i cannot say, but my diet is as it is and its planned by a danish expert who has helped several danish national bodybuilding champions.

    Besides i never said i can't eat to match my needs, i just say i plan my supplements around my needs. I find it hard to probrably discuss this with you if you aren't a lifter yourself. Of course supplements would be a waste for you if you have no intentions on packing on muscle, so why even go there. Supplements just gives oppurtunities to optimize nutitrition that cant be done, or atleast wouldnt be convinient with regular foods. Besides, supplements such as creatine arent just possible to get through your foods in the amounts you need, BCAAs not possible. Beta-alanine, not possible either. Should we begin to say that caffeine is a waste of money as well?

    I had the glucose wrong, but still stand by my statement. It's nothing to worry about, especially when consuming his proteins with most likely a ratio of 3:1 (carbs/protein). There are several reasons to why he get his pimples, im still putting my money on the gainer because of the sugars. I know some people get pimples from normal whey as well and it can be caused by lots of stuff, but i doubt in many cases its the blood glucose level.

    I hope i haven't insulted you, thats in no way your intention, however it seems like you lash out after me. Its not cool being called a liar, neither is it good for you to tell me to learn biology when in the same paragraph there are several errors, most the last.

    "Though really I merely said that it was converted to fat if not used, so unless he was attempting to become fat for some reason, using protein powders in excess which can merely mean taking them when you don't need to, can cause weight gain unless on a low carb/calorie diets because the body has no real way to store the excess efficiently."

    Not all relating to being incorrect, but i would assume the reason he uses a gainer is to take on weight which is required in order to build muscle. So yes, hes most likely building up some fat as well. Using protein powders in excess does not form fat, i have no idea where you have this from. Whey acts like any other thing you would consume, no different. The only time fat would be stored is if he drank a shake or two which put him in a calorie surplus. But the exact same thing would happen if he ate a beef, drank some milk, or had a soda. So what your saying is straight wrong.
    Besides the fact that you consistently come off as trying to sound dominate and omnipotent, nothing I said was wrong. You made vast assumptions about things I said, and completely fabricated other things I said (such as supplements being a waste of money, please quote that anywhere from me). You are trying to be combative and argumentative for no real reason at all, especially since you are agreeing with me on everything I have said. Let's go over it point by point just to be certain.

    1- Taking protein powder on top of a satisfactory diet will make someone gain weight. You call me wrong on this, then continue to say that yes it would were it to put him in a calorie surplus, which it would. It goes with the fact that you said, of how the body has no way to effectively store protein, which is why if you go more than a day or two without protein it will start eating away at your muscles. Protein isn't stored in your body as protein, it also doesn't magically disappear if not used. It also doesn't magically turn into muscle if you don't exercise to use it.

    2- I stated that eating right was a better option than supplements. You agree with me on this at first, then continue to say that I am wrong because some supplements are needed. Which really, they aren't in the slightest unless you are doing high endurance or high intensity muscle building. For a normal person just trying to gain or lose some weight they really aren't needed.

    Finally, nothing was meant as an insult. It's simple logical deduction that either you were lying about how much you were taking, were taking far more supplements than is needed going off the expert opinions I had found, or were doing above and beyond what anyone average would possibly dream of doing as a work out. If you took it as you lying I would probably reason that as what is really going on considering your offense to that in particular. But perhaps you just dislike even the thought of being called a liar even though there were two other very clear options that were not offensive at all, rather than just dis-liking being caught in a lie.

    Any any case, if you feel like needlessly being argumentative anymore take it to PMs, we've both already answered OP with our own options. You telling him to take more supplements of different kinds, and me telling him that unless he's trying to super-size, it would probably be a safer and healthier option to form a high protein nutritional plan.

  20. #20
    I'd seriously avoid the chemicals, powders and garbage. If you want bulk, eat natural protein like meat... not powdered stuff. (incidentally, Rice Protein is an oxymoron. Rice is mostly starch and has no protein in it.
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