Thread: Dark Intent

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  1. #81
    thats still making some rather HUGE assumptions tho. they arent called huntards for nothing.


    Let's not insult other classes with names that lead to flaming, please. ~xskarma
    Last edited by xskarma; 2013-01-01 at 10:18 PM.

  2. #82
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reivno View Post
    Mages:
    - 10% SP + 5% Crit, Buff
    - Timewarp, BL
    - Table, Raid utility
    - Decurse, Raid utility
    - Polymorph, CC
    - Portals, General utility
    Portals and tables are out of combat, so they don't really count. Same with decurse (when was the last time you saw a curse go out?). However, mages do have mass CC like ring of frost, frost nova, even deep freeze are all in mage arsenals. And have all proved (very) useful.

    If you want to talk purge, you forgot the mage purge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reivno View Post
    Warlocks:
    - 10% SP, Buff
    - 5% Magical Damage increase / 10% Physical damage reduce + 50% increased cast time, Debuff
    - 10% Stam + Purge, Buff / utility
    - Banish, CC
    - Fear, CC
    - Healthstones, Raid utility (only possible class to provide)
    - Soulstone, CR
    - Gateway, Raid utility
    - Summon, General utility
    - Underwater breathing (+ Water Walking), "utility"
    Summons and water walking are useless for combat, so I wouldn't call that utility. Arcane mages also bring cast time debuff as I said. The Imp dispell hardly counts as useful given its CD (the only use I can see is for a self-dispel on protectors, which healers should have covered anyway, or they are bad). The purge also has a long CD (unlike mage purge), and is exclusive from the dispel/stamina, so it can't really be used for purging.

    Banish is good for 1 fight this tier, and is hardly a "necessary" CC (mass CC is more useful), Fear has really not been very useful given its cast time, 1 target, and 20 second duration, and the fact it breaks on damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Can people please actually, you know, do some of these encounters
    ... before talking about "utility" for said fights?

  3. #83
    di with 10proc sp and 5 proc spell haste and everyone will be happy

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Warlocks should provide SP+Spell Haste. Haste is way to rare as it is. My 10man group rarely has both melee attack speed and spell haste, so our hunter is forced to pet twist mid fight to provide both. Sometimes we'll have an Ele, but there's been quite a few nights recently where we don't have our Ele shaman and are stuck with either the hunter pet twisting or not getting one at all.
    lol jesus christ if you bring haste instead of CoE the hunter would still rotate two pets, just with different buffs.

  5. #85
    hey its rare but i really use imp dispell with gosac on a boss: tsulong ! i despell the boss, so the healer can concentrate on healing, while having the buff.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the arguement of 4 classes is sorta void, since its from a sporebat that ive yet to see any hunter bring to a raid, its the same situation as with the stam buff from imp, there is absolutely no reason to use the imp or sporebat since the sporebat does nothing for the hunter itself, they will focus on pets that bring crit, mastery or BL, just like locks wont use imps since it is a staight dps nerf for us, so in short, can hunters bring the spellhaste buff? yes, will they bring it? hell no.
    Our Hunters almost never need to rely on their pets to have their own buffs covered, so if our Shadow Priest can't make it they'll roll out a Sporebat.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    lol jesus christ if you bring haste instead of CoE the hunter would still rotate two pets, just with different buffs.
    Where did I say I wanted Haste at the expense of Magic Damage taken?

  8. #88
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaoxy View Post
    hey its rare but i really use imp dispell with gosac on a boss: tsulong ! i despell the boss, so the healer can concentrate on healing, while having the buff.
    If the fight is done properly, I don't think Terrorize should ever happen during a sun breath (you want to use the sun breath to kill the mini-sha that appear after you kill the big one, who casts it).

    And of course the Light of Day healer (on HM) wouldn't be dispelling.

    I'm not saying the imp dispel isn't some sort of contribution, but I'd imagine a knockback, AoE, or more damage would be significantly more useful. Healers still have to dispel players with the buff either way, at that.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the arguement of 4 classes is sorta void, since its from a sporebat that ive yet to see any hunter bring to a raid, its the same situation as with the stam buff from imp, there is absolutely no reason to use the imp or sporebat since the sporebat does nothing for the hunter itself, they will focus on pets that bring crit, mastery or BL, just like locks wont use imps since it is a staight dps nerf for us, so in short, can hunters bring the spellhaste buff? yes, will they bring it? hell no.
    It's becoming tiring hearing about this dps nerf. It's a minor theoretical nerf, yes. There is absolutely no evidence to back that up. None. Simcraft is great for many things, but until you can sim each fight independently, it'll never be accurate for a raid encounter. From the testing I've done, actual raid encounters, it's not behind. It's ahead. I know, right? How'd that happen? Good thing one data point makes conclusive evidence not. I would imagine if people would stop blindly following sims and test things out themselves, a lot of these changes and decisions would make more sense.

    But, of course, that requires work. It's far easier to do what someone else tells you, right?
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Medieve View Post
    From the testing I've done, actual raid encounters, it's not behind. It's ahead.
    Can you provide your data? GoSac vs GoSup is actually very easy to test if you've already logged the encounter in GoSup, since you can just multiply some numbers and get your GoSac damage to compare with the pet damage.

    A little back of the napkin math done on one of Evrelia's Will logs shows that as a good rule of thumb if your MG uptime > 50% GoSac is better.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  11. #91
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    I have come to accept Dark Intent providing spell power. And never cast it any more do to almost always being in a group with a shaman or a mage.

    I would like Blood Pact to persist after you sacrifice your imp though.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Technically, you do have a stamina buff if you choose (supposedly all three grimoire talents are "equal"). You also bring the spell damage debuff.
    It is a spell damage debuff so that is not really an argument.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 06:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reivno View Post
    Mages:
    - 10% SP + 5% Crit, Buff
    - Timewarp, BL
    - Table, Raid utility
    - Decurse, Raid utility
    - Polymorph, CC
    - Portals, General utility

    Warlocks:
    - 10% SP, Buff
    - 5% Magical Damage increase / 10% Physical damage reduce + 50% increased cast time, Debuff
    - 10% Stam + Purge, Buff / utility
    - Banish, CC
    - Fear, CC
    - Healthstones, Raid utility (only possible class to provide)
    - Soulstone, CR
    - Gateway, Raid utility
    - Summon, General utility
    - Underwater breathing (+ Water Walking), "utility"

    I can't see a problem ^^
    At least make a list that is less obvious at forgetting a ton of mage utilities
    Last edited by Bakis; 2013-01-02 at 05:15 PM.
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  13. #93
    I just wish stamina was baked into dark intent for PvP purposes. It sucks knowing that either I play with a pet that's not as good, or give up a buff. No one has to give up their buffs in exchange for utility, why should warlocks?

    When you think about it, frost mages (to give one example) have their crit buff baked with intellect, along with a CHOICE of MORE crit (or mastery/haste) and additional defenses (snare, physical damage reduction, magic debuff duration reduced) through their armor buff. They also got counterspell and spellsteal at all times. Not to mention the pet that also provides CC by casting a root effect. And that's just by being a frost mage, not even taking talents into account.

    Me? I have dark intent, and then a choice: either stamina buff/dispel (imp), counterspell/purge (felhunter/observer), or cc (succubus/felguard). I don't get additional mastery/haste/crit buffs through demon armor. I don't get to have it all like a mage does.

    Instead I get... armor, which any melee spec has a spell to tear right through it (like find weakness or colossus smash). So mages can get 6% physical damage reduced, and I get... 10% more cloth armor that gets reduced by 50% whenever a melee character sneezes near me. Because that's totally fair.

    And let me not even being to talk about shadow priests.

    So I guess the tl;dr is: bake the stamina buff into dark intent. It's not going to break the game to allow warlocks to have 10% more stamina at all times in PvP.

  14. #94
    Yes, I bring a stamina buff to every raid...regardless of Grimoire talent or pet selection....it's called Runescroll of Fortitude III. Beyond that, I agree with OP...can we please get someone who has actually ever played a warlock in the live version of the game to work on warlock design?!? Imp is by far the lowest DPS pet.

    If they really wanted us to bring Stam they would allow every pet to provide it...that MIGHT be a reason to spec out of Sacrifice (as Affliction) to bring a pet when the raid needs the buff.

  15. #95
    If every pet brough stamina, call it Demonic Fortitude, with a bad ass icon like the old Demo 10% sp Buff

    And all priests bring Haste, I think the new buff/debuff system would be close to perfect
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  16. #96
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Im going to step out and assume you are talking about 10 man raiding yes ?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 03:43 PM ----------

    At the end of the day, hunters have access to every buff
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  17. #97
    I am fine with it. Warlocks have curse debuffs, provide healthstones, and the demonic gateway if needed. Warlocks techinally bring 4 great tools for raiding. They do not need a 5th.

  18. #98
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plotus View Post
    I am fine with it. Warlocks have curse debuffs, provide healthstones, and the demonic gateway if needed. Warlocks techinally bring 4 great tools for raiding. They do not need a 5th.
    Yeah, at least on 10m, don't take away too much credit from healthstones and demonic gateway. Try raiding without them for a bit. (You'd have to on another class, of course).

  19. #99
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Can you provide your data? GoSac vs GoSup is actually very easy to test if you've already logged the encounter in GoSup, since you can just multiply some numbers and get your GoSac damage to compare with the pet damage.

    A little back of the napkin math done on one of Evrelia's Will logs shows that as a good rule of thumb if your MG uptime > 50% GoSac is better.
    I've got several aff and destro parses from GoSac, and am currently putting together GoSup parses. It's rough, there's not many. So, I'm creating some. On single target for Aff, it's around 2% theoretical loss overall, but so far in raid, it's a wash. Reliably testing will take months for me to do it solo, since LFR is awful for comparison testing. Different groups with wildly different skill levels will give you wildly different results assuming you perform exactly the same each time.

    So in short, I don't have enough data yet to share. Like I said, one data point doesn't make conclusive proof. But I'm working on it. It also requires a different priority of secondary stats, and I'd imagine people don't have that gear laying around to test with. We only recently got a mage in our ten man, so I do. From other types of testing (raid dummies, challenge modes), the damage is a wash.

    But that's the work I'm talking about. It's tiring hearing how horribly you're gimping your raid when theoretically it's barely noticable, and the reality could just as easily be none at all to a gain. Even this probably wouldn't have bothered me, except people started talking as if using the imp is unviable and destructive to progression. There's absolutely zero evidence to support that theory one way or the other.
    Last edited by Medieve; 2013-01-03 at 01:16 PM.
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