My opinion on rogue (pvp, sub)

[purstr785]

i think that the new buffs they give us arent that good, but they sure are a step in the right way

Prep. and the new 150 energy 4piece set are the main buffs, no1 can argue that, but it dosent fix the class like we want it to be fixed. I think we can all agree that more white hits ( like the new shuriken toss talent) arent what we're looking for... 5 free combo point on lv 90 tier called Marked for Death. whats the point? i could already do that whit anticipation pooling combo points AND benefit from it the whole fight, all its going to do is people creating 1 shot macro along whit the Cloak and Dagger talent.

but what about Cloak and Dagger, is it that good, i hear a lot of people saying '' you can step everywhere and peel your teamates'' i'm sorry but i dont need to port everywhere wasting my energy, on dance, i stunlock people, it wont affect my gameplay. I need shadow step to step kick healers, connect whit every class that has a baseline talent to move like blinks disengage charge etc. and get to my teamates to eat traps.

I feel that all the changes right now are based around the shadow dance to 1 shot macro on the opening, mark for death for the free points, cloak and dager to connect, the new never strike talent that nerfs heals after a stun and the 150 energy. Never stirke is good, but i cant picture myself against a kfc whit no combat rediness.

What i think rogues need right now is burst of speed baseline whit no energy cost and whit a 20sec-30sec cd ( the old version, only to break roots from time to time like feral ret and wars) and MOST IMPORTANT i think that what killed the rogue class right now is when they removed the critical mass talent that was giving us 30% on backstab and 60% on ambushs. My backstab right now crits for less than in catha, they need to compasate for that too, we cant do anything outside dance. Theres too many finishers to build a class damage around evicerates.


Sorry my english is bad, working on it!

[Deleted]

I just dont get the tought process behind slice and dice on sublety. I mean since when did our damage ever come from auto attacks -_-

[Dudebanger]

I don't like how in PvP you need to use so many finishers to get yourself setup optimally in PvP.

5 points -> Slice and Dice (REQUIRED)
5 point -> Recuperate (Situational)
5 point -> Rupture (REQUIRED)

So, after 2-3 finishers and a long ramp up time, you can start pumping eviscerates. If you need all three, assuming 3-4 combo building moves per finisher, that's 15-20 global that you need to spend before you're optimally setup on your target.

What does a warrior need to get setup? Charge -> Mortal strike. DONE! They press their buttons as they get rage and procs. 2-3 globals max for a warrior to be fully setup on his target. We could even go a step further and say that Battleshout was not up and add in an extra global. So, 4 globals vs. a rogue's 15 (rounding down) to get fully setup on a target.

The problem is that rogue mechanics have not evolved over the years. As WoW evolves, slice and dice feels out of place as it's clearly an outdated game mechanic. Slicen and Dice should be tied to a offensive finisher. You do a 4 point eviserate? 4 point slice and dice buff goes up.

Rupture does absolutely laughable damage and has since 2004. It's another finisher that's flat out not fun to use. However, due to rogue game mechanics it MUST be up for at least two of the three specs. Venomous wounds (energy and damage) and the 16% (soon to be 20%) damage buff and utility that it provides requires you to use an unsatisfying ability.

Rogues have gone up and down throughout WoW's history but it seems that Blizzard has modernized most other classes. Given them more utility, better defensive cooldowns that do not rely on RNG (looking at you evasion). Other classes have evolved beyond where the rogue was in previous expansions. The class still continues to use horribly outdated game mechanics. Because of that, rogues are only remotely scary when they're popping cooldowns (shadow dance/blades + pvp trinket). Outside of those cooldowns, other classes defensive mechanics and easilly shrug off rogue damage (eg. Warlock defensive cooldowns in particular).

[Deleted]

I just dont get the tought process behind slice and dice on sublety. I mean since when did our damage ever come from auto attacks -_-

Even in Cata it was used before bursting to maximize pressure.
In the last Cata season you had enough mastery so that the 50-60 % extra haste did a lot of damage.

Using a 5p SnD was the best thing you could do, when you knew that in 10-20 seconds you will be bursting, because it was much more damage than a 5p evis/rupture.

[Verain]

We're going to feel a lot better about autoattacks if the shuriken throw change goes live.

[bzhai]

Would still prefer Shadowstep baseline with a talent that upgrades it to break roots and/or get a damage increase. Seems a lot less op than Preparation though it can be argued that it's needed to improve Rogue survivability but knowing this game other classes will cry louder and by 5.3 we'll see Prep being nerfed again.

Also with Versatility off our tree does this mean there's a chance it will become baseline in the near future?

[Deleted]

Well rogues shouldn't have a long ramp up time. We were designed to kill fast and die fast.