Cartel Market Survey by Darth Hater

[Whitepepper]

That's the problem though, they were already foolish enough to spend a ridiculous amount of money on an item that has no real world value I don't think they have the smarts to get in in a cheaper/smarter way.

While edgecrusher does make a valid point of value of things changes from person to person and what the market demands. There is ALSO an objective value of these items and if people were smart enough to realize how much value y=they placed on these stupid items they would kick themselves.

...but it seems like MMO people or cash shop customers are about the worst people with money I've ever known. It's not whether they have the money to waste on that junk but I think they should be declared legally unstable if they decide to blow such preposterous amounts on a intangible fake item, that will at most give them fleeting joy when they move onto the next piece of Junk Bioware shovels out..

I think you're being far too critical of people for spending money on their hobbies. People shell out hundreds in greens fees every month and the only tangible thing they have at months end is a few scorecards, if they bothered to save them. People will pay thousands for a good seat at a major sporting event or a concert and walk away with almost nothing but a memory. People will spend thousands on cigarettes over years and end up with nothing but cancer. The list could go on and on. Why pick on the people who want to spend their money on a video game?

[Deleted]

Sigh.

Friend of mine works on the management level of a consulting company. He has a WoW subscription. When he stops playing for three or four months, he doesn't bother unsubscribing. It is subjectively not worth his time. And here comes the clue, given what he makes per hour and how long unsubscribing/resubscribing takes, it might very well objectively not be worth his time either.

That said, people who pay cartel packs might be using both their time and their money economically correct. Both alternatives: grinding the credits by doing dailies or learning about the ingame economy to sell item A and use the credits made to buy the desired item B might not be worth their time.

So people claiming intellectual superiority for grinding 10 hours ingame to acquire the same items somebody else buys with the money they make from 30 mins RL work are treading on thin ice.

nb. coming from somebody who does not spend RL money on pixels

[Armourboy]

Sigh.

Friend of mine works on the management level of a consulting company. He has a WoW subscription. When he stops playing for three or four months, he doesn't bother unsubscribing. It is subjectively not worth his time. And here comes the clue, given what he makes per hour and how long unsubscribing/resubscribing takes, it might very well objectively not be worth his time either.

That said, people who pay cartel packs might be using both their time and their money economically correct. Both alternatives: grinding the credits by doing dailies or learning about the ingame economy to sell item A and use the credits made to buy the desired item B might not be worth their time.

So people claiming intellectual superiority for grinding 10 hours ingame to acquire the same items somebody else buys with the money they make from 30 mins RL work are treading on thin ice.

nb. coming from somebody who does not spend RL money on pixels

I tend to think though that most of these people aren't in the same boat as your friend. I've played MMO's far too long to not notice that most of us if not broke, ain't exactly swimming in it either. As the old saying goes, rich people didn't get rich by throwing money away, so I have a hard time believing a good chunk of that 13% actually has the disposable income to actually be doing it. Its just a hunch, but I'm betting most of that 13% are slapping it on CC's just like they do with everything else they buy. Granted, I could be completely off my rocker, but I seriously doubt it.

Its one reason I don't think long term its sustainable, eventually they are gonna run out of space on that CC.

[Argroth]

I tend to think though that most of these people aren't in the same boat as your friend. I've played MMO's far too long to not notice that most of us if not broke, ain't exactly swimming in it either. As the old saying goes, rich people didn't get rich by throwing money away, so I have a hard time believing a good chunk of that 13% actually has the disposable income to actually be doing it. Its just a hunch, but I'm betting most of that 13% are slapping it on CC's just like they do with everything else they buy. Granted, I could be completely off my rocker, but I seriously doubt it.

Its one reason I don't think long term its sustainable, eventually they are gonna run out of space on that CC.

Yea I don't think there are too many CEOs having a raid night every tuesday and thursday. There are probably a few but The large majority is probably teenagers and young adults. There is probably 500 5 year olds playing the game for every 1 person who makes enough money that spending $150+ on fake items and not have to give a shit, there arn't lots of 5 year olds...and i think that is being conservative.

If I knew someone who was really successful but then blew all that money on intangible single item video game objects, I would not be running over to pat that guy on the back... I would be rethinking how much I should respect this wasteful person. Not that I think smoking is better but at least smokers are chemically addicted to cigarettes, people addicted to video game spending should really see someone.

At least cigarettes have warnings on them to show people the stupid things they are doing to themselves, these online shops do nothing but pat you on the back while you descend into unreasonable spending on fleeting items that do nothing. I should sell these people an imaginary friend...

[Edge-]

Yea I don't think there are too many CEOs having a raid night every tuesday and thursday. There are probably a few but The large majority is probably teenagers and young adults. There is probably 500 5 year olds playing the game for every 1 person who makes enough money that spending $150+ on fake items and not have to give a shit, there arn't lots of 5 year olds...and i think that is being conservative.

If I knew someone who was really successful but then blew all that money on intangible single item video game objects, I would not be running over to pat that guy on the back... I would be rethinking how much I should respect this wasteful person. Not that I think smoking is better but at least smokers are chemically addicted to cigarettes, people addicted to video game spending should really see someone.

At least cigarettes have warnings on them to show people the stupid things they are doing to themselves, these online shops do nothing but pat you on the back while you descend into unreasonable spending on fleeting items that do nothing. I should sell these people an imaginary friend...

You'd be surprised at the number of people with jobs that pay very well who also play video games frequently, and have the kind of expendable income to throw at them without caring. It's actually far more common than you would think. They're by no means a majority, but they're not as much of a minority as you seem to think. Couple that with individuals who spend here and there, and you have a ton of potential cash shop revenue.

As for your other two paragraphs...

You're making value determinations as if your value system is the only one that matters. It's not. People assign different values to different objects, real or not. I've seen people throw hundreds of thousands/millions at artwork that I wouldn't pay more than a few bucks for. Do I belittle and make fun of them? No. They want it, they can afford it, and it brings them pleasure. So why the fuck shouldn't they buy it?

You're seemingly thinking that purchasing things in the cash shop is different than purchasing a game or DLC ect. You purchase man intangible things all the time, but that doesn't mean these things are valueless.

I hate to break it to you but "these online shops" keep many games afloat and profitable. Without them, many games would either be closed down, or in the same shape as Warhammer, dead in the water with no content coming out. They've offered an alternative path for MMO's to take, and clearly are providing a service that people feel is valuable. So what if you don't feel that items in the cash shop are valuable, enough people do that cash shop revenue surpassed subscription based revenue in 2012.

Don't conflate digital goods with imaginary goods. They are two different things entirely. Digital goods do exist in a sense, and there is/can be value attached to them.

[Alvito]

Two things -

Someone has to buy the mount for it to go on the GTN, so why not that individual?

Sure somebody has to buy them but why pay double what you have to? I am sure it varies server to server but there are almost 2 dozen of those mounts in the GTN on Harbinger right now, with a mix of both colors. I think the gambling part of it is why so many do it mixed in with the micro transactions to buy cartel coins. If somebody had to pay 100 bucks at once they would be far less likely to do it then making a bunch of smaller purchases over and over. Ppl that bought huge blocks coins to get more coins per dollar are a little more likely to just spend and spend since they have the sale mentality, oh I wouldn't do this again but it is on sale. You can never fully discount the crazy things ppl will do though it is like the spectral tiger mounts in wow going for 3 to 4 grand on ebay for awhile durring BC in WoW. I talked to one super smart guy that paid more for his toons, pixel land mount that he only used in bgs, then he did for his own car.

You're attaching your values placed on time and money on others who don't value those two things similarly.

I'm not trying to say what one thing is worth to me is what it is worth to others. The fact they are grossly over paying when it can be purchased in much cheaper or easier ways is the hang up for me more then anything. Spending the hundered plus dollars isn't the issue, paying a hundered plus for something you can get through the same means for 20 is. Some of my comments above touch on that though. There will always be things ppl really want or feel they just have to have and as a result do whatever is needed to get it. When that occurs common sense goes right out the window. The need for instant gratification is also a large part in why people will happily do some of these things.

[Prag]

Oh look at this. Three pages of arguments that are completely debunked by simply stating that fun is subjective.

SWTOR may not have the numbers, and some people may not enjoy it, but WAR is still around as F2P and nobody enjoys it. SWTOR isn't going anywhere, regardless of how hard you try to prove someone else's opinion is wrong.

[Armourboy]

Oh look at this. Three pages of arguments that are completely debunked by simply stating that fun is subjective.

SWTOR may not have the numbers, and some people may not enjoy it, but WAR is still around as F2P and nobody enjoys it. SWTOR isn't going anywhere, regardless of how hard you try to prove someone else's opinion is wrong.

I think you should read the three pages again, at no point did anyone say SWTOR was going anywhere ( at least no seriously involved int he discussion). The discussion was about how much money people were spending, and a secondary topic thrown in of whether that spending rate by players was sustainable or not.

[Edge-]

Sure somebody has to buy them but why pay double what you have to?

You're missing my point. Someone has to purchase it to put it on the GTN. They don't just appear there. So already, someone has decided that the value of the item/credits they receive is worth the price they payed for it. So inherently, for your scenario to apply, there has to be a value determination for the value of real money, compared to the value of in-game items/currency.

I'm not trying to say what one thing is worth to me is what it is worth to others. The fact they are grossly over paying when it can be purchased in much cheaper or easier ways is the hang up for me more then anything. Spending the hundered plus dollars isn't the issue, paying a hundered plus for something you can get through the same means for 20 is. Some of my comments above touch on that though. There will always be things ppl really want or feel they just have to have and as a result do whatever is needed to get it. When that occurs common sense goes right out the window. The need for instant gratification is also a large part in why people will happily do some of these things.

I'm sorta confused by the $100-$20 dollar thing...what functions like that in-game? >.>

And common sense doesn't go right out the window. For many people, spending 20-50 bucks more on something isn't an issue. They don't care because to them, the value of that money isn't worth the time/effort of finding whatever product/service they are purchasing at a lower price. They are in the minority of individuals, but I know some people like this. For someone like me (and maybe you), this seems absurd. I know I don't have the kind of money to be doing that. But to them, it doesn't make a lick of difference.

---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 09:54 AM ----------

SWTOR may not have the numbers, and some people may not enjoy it, but WAR is still around as F2P and nobody enjoys it.

Warhammer is still subscription only, and barely exists (1 server for US, 1 for EU). It gets no content updates and is basically in maintenance mode (though it does have holiday/anniversary events !_!)

[Argroth]

They are in the minority of individuals, but I know some people like this. For someone like me (and maybe you), this seems absurd. I know I don't have the kind of money to be doing that. But to them, it doesn't make a lick of difference.[COLOR="red"]

I hope they are a small group, becase those kinda people make me sad that some people are actually like that. If they have money thats great dosn't mean they SHOULD waste it on crap like the Cartel market crap. They can but I don't like it and in all honesty, think less of them for being so foolish.

If you saw Bill gates or Opra just throwing tons of money into a fire, would you not even for a second go, "jeez that's dumb"? because that's what I see when people spend money on the cartel market stuff (and they are rarely even close to well off).

[Kagonos]

I hope they are a small group, becase those kinda people make me sad that some people are actually like that. If they have money thats great dosn't mean they SHOULD waste it on crap like the Cartel market crap. They can but I don't like it and in all honesty, think less of them for being so foolish.

If you saw Bill gates or Opra just throwing tons of money into a fire, would you not even for a second go, "jeez that's dumb"? because that's what I see when people spend money on the cartel market stuff (and they are rarely even close to well off).

Judgmental much? I'm sorry that what others do with their money bothers you so much... I do not make a ton of money, yet I subscribe to both SWtOR and WoW and I also spend money on the silly little digital things that they provide. I KNOW there are other things that I could spend it on, but I enjoy the little in game things as much as I do some of the "real" things that I can spend it on. It all depends on what it is that satisfies whatever cravings, desires or urges you have. Not everyone in the world likes to play Frisbee, but I sure as heck do. Do I think that everyone who doesn't is some kind of sad, humanity destroying individual? Is their lack of support for my chosen activity in any way diminishing the joy that I derive from it? No to both. I don't even extoll the virtues of playing it beyond saying that it's one of my favorite things to do for so many reasons.

[Deleted]

I hope they are a small group, becase those kinda people make me sad that some people are actually like that. If they have money thats great dosn't mean they SHOULD waste it on crap like the Cartel market crap. They can but I don't like it and in all honesty, think less of them for being so foolish.

If you saw Bill gates or Opra just throwing tons of money into a fire, would you not even for a second go, "jeez that's dumb"? because that's what I see when people spend money on the cartel market stuff (and they are rarely even close to well off).

I had 10 open accounts of SWG. $150 a month. For some accounts I didn't even log in for months at a time. I'd use my main 5-6 accounts all the time but the other 4-5 would be accessed little during the year yet still remained open. The reason has nothing to do with how affluent someone is but instead what value they place on $15/$30/$100/$1000 etc. You seem to value those denominations more highly than me.

Does this make you a poor envious sod? Not at all.

Does it make me 'dumb'? Not at all.

We just value those denominations differently. Aslong as we earnt the money ourselves I don't much care what you do with yours and I'd like not to be be called dumb for what I do with mine.

[RoninaThorstone]

We just value those denominations differently. Aslong as we earnt the money ourselves I don't much care what you do with yours and I'd like not to be be called dumb for what I do with mine.

This.

I don't smoke or drink (before you ask, no I am not mormon. Just have alcholoism in my family (yay irish) and really botched up lungs (premature lungs at birth... yay) so I have some spare cash compared to some of my friends and I have no problem with spending it on video games but I know several of my friends think I am just pissing away all my spare change.

Now, if you know my post history you also know that I get a weird glee out of not paying for things. F2P is like being a kleptomaniac without running the risk of being jailed.

If I didn't have that, I would totally be one of those "I spend most of my disposable income on video games" guys.