Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1
    Pit Lord Packers01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,461

    Resto shaman mastery cap?

    I was elemental but am now switching to resto to heal 10 man. My Ilvl is 486 in my resto gear but could use 2 lfr pieces to get the 2 set bonus. My question is reforge lite has the stat values as spirit 200, haste 180 to 871, mastery 160 and crit 140. If I reforge this way my stats look like this. 11.87% haste with AS, 8772 spirit, 63% haste and 10% crit. Would you suggest reforging mastery to crit? 63% mastery just seems too high imo.

  2. #2
    mastery has linear benefits, there is no cap.
    Haste as a resto shaman is not recommended, (Casttimes are lowered with tidal waves), try to reforge it into spirit if possible, otherwise into crit. The most important thing is to get as much spirit as possible out of your gear, u will run dry in most heroic modes with this little spirit / crit.

    Depending on your mana status, u may find yourself wanting more crit, as crits return some mana for shamans (with this gearlvl i recommend 14- 15 % or so should be the goal). Once u feel fine with mana, u want more mastery or even some haste.

    Dont let yourself fool by any mastery %. More is better in nearly all situation, but priority is always on regen.
    Only reason to drop mastery under 60 % is running with a very competent disc priest, as their shields will disable the benefits of shaman mastery to a good part.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Packers01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,461
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nncilla/simple There is link to my shammy. Pick away everyone. Basically guild is going 10 man and sort of starting over after the new year. If you gusy see anything I am missing feel free to call me a noob

  4. #4
    The Patient Dorac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    219
    In my opinion, your a little high on mastery and haste. Although I see you've reforged out of haste where you can, not much you can do at this point. Imo if you can, drop a little bit of mastery for crit (your rings for example) Since your regen and throughput will benefit. I raid 25s on my Rsham, but I'm sure in 10 mans your single target healing more so you will benefit from the crit a little more too.

  5. #5
    Keyboard Turner shealz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    3
    You want your mastery to be around 50%. Spirit is your main stat while gearing until you are above 10% mana at the end of a fight(s). At that point you can slowly start coming out of spirit. I recommend you first stop using spirit flasks and food then move into intel gems and enchants. Haste is greatly devalued because lag at certain break points makes you lose a tick in HR, RT etc etc...Reforge into crit when you can for Resurgence (mana regains through crits).

  6. #6
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Southern England
    Posts
    211
    Personally, I have always gone for the HST/HTT soft cap, which is 3,764 haste. That can be a bit of a pain in the arse to gear around at first, but it does give you some extra, free, healing.

    Spirit is a big one, but your mileage will vary depending on your spell use. With food and flask I have just shy of 12,000 spirit - however we typically raid 25m, so the bigger MTT can be a boon to the raid.
    As far as 10m goes, I guess it depends on your healing team composition?
    - We run Mistweaver / Restoration, with either an offspec (or even offhealer), or other full healer (for those fights that require 3), if necessary.
    - As tends to be said, how much spirit you have depends on a number of factors: #1 of which is how quickly you can get through the fight (or how frequently people get hit by avoidable shit)

    Crit and mastery are down to personal preference, really. I try to keep things balanced, but I do favour mastery as a general thing

    Main thing though is practice, and getting a feel for the class / how you heal

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ib_di View Post
    Personally, I have always gone for the HST/HTT soft cap, which is 3,764 haste. That can be a bit of a pain in the arse to gear around at first, but it does give you some extra, free, healing.

    Spirit is a big one, but your mileage will vary depending on your spell use. With food and flask I have just shy of 12,000 spirit - however we typically raid 25m, so the bigger MTT can be a boon to the raid.
    As far as 10m goes, I guess it depends on your healing team composition?
    - We run Mistweaver / Restoration, with either an offspec (or even offhealer), or other full healer (for those fights that require 3), if necessary.
    - As tends to be said, how much spirit you have depends on a number of factors: #1 of which is how quickly you can get through the fight (or how frequently people get hit by avoidable shit)

    Crit and mastery are down to personal preference, really. I try to keep things balanced, but I do favour mastery as a general thing

    Main thing though is practice, and getting a feel for the class / how you heal
    There isnt really a HST/HTT sot cap. You should read some more Shaman Forums, you would have noticed that this caps are buggy

    I am going Crit > Mastery > Haste. I am at ~13k Spirit atm. and i allredy have nearly no problems with my mana. I am thinking about losing some spirit and go for a little bit int ... And yeah ... You really dont need to reforge mastery, there is plenty on gear ( i think i have around 55% )
    Last edited by ray1892; 2012-12-24 at 02:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ib_di View Post
    Personally, I have always gone for the HST/HTT soft cap, which is 3,764 haste. That can be a bit of a pain in the arse to gear around at first, but it does give you some extra, free, healing.

    I'm going to be the first to say that you are better off just throwing roughly 2800 stats in the garbage.

    The MP5 you get back from spirit is nothing compared to the amount of mana gained from resurgence. Which you're getting from crits.

    If someone is new to healing on a shaman and is looking for the best setup its by no means haste especially in a 10 man.

    People should have to take tests to be able to respond to posts on these forums.
    -Biotics-

  9. #9
    There's no cap on Mastery, and the effect it gives is so great in most content it has the highest prio AFTER Spirit and 12,5% Haste.

    Your stat prio should look like Spirit > 12,5% Haste > Mastery > Crit/Haste

  10. #10
    The Patient edlike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    260
    I've seen people advocate mastery heavy builds, or even haste stacking. I personally go for 9-10k spirit, then prioritize Crit>Mastery for the massive amount of regen from resurgence. You are going to have enough native haste on your gear, even reforging out of haste on every piece, to hit the base cap with Ancestral Swiftness. This might change come 5.2 with EM looking OP as it is right now, but we'll see.

    On average most 2 heal fights I get right around 250k mana back from resurgence on fights lasting longer than 6-7 minutes, sometimes close to 300k (just looking briefly at personal ranks for H Tay'ak, N Empress, N Garalon). This really allows you to sustain healing intensive encounters for a long duration, in my opinion.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shealz View Post
    You want your mastery to be around 50%. Spirit is your main stat while gearing until you are above 10% mana at the end of a fight(s). At that point you can slowly start coming out of spirit. I recommend you first stop using spirit flasks and food then move into intel gems and enchants. Haste is greatly devalued because lag at certain break points makes you lose a tick in HR, RT etc etc...Reforge into crit when you can for Resurgence (mana regains through crits).

    There is no mastery cap, no mastery breakpoints, and there is nothing magical about 50% or 60% mastery that you should be worrying about. My advice would be.
    -Haste is the lowest priority stat. With Ancestral Swiftness specced, you need less than 800 haste from gear to hit the Healing Rain breakpoint, and all other breakpoints past that are either unreachable or buggy (the totem breakpoints).
    -You generally want Spirit on every item if you are pushing difficult content at all. You should almost always gem Spirit, since Spirit on gems is at a 2:1 ratio with INT (and INT is definitely not twice as good point for point). If you want to replace some Spirit with INT, flasks and food are the best way to do it, because they are at a 1:1 ratio.
    -After Spirit, your next highest priority secondary stat will be either Crit or Mastery, Which is better depends on how high people's health sits in content that you are working on. From a throughput perspective alone, Crit outperforms Mastery as long as people are above about 45% HP for direct heals (HW, GHW, HS, Chain Heal) and above about 65% HP for AoE heals that do not proc Ancestral Awakening (Healing Rain, HST, HTT, ELW, Riptide HoT, etc). Because Crit also gives mana regen, the actual point at which Mastery becomes better than Crit is probably more like 30%/50%.

    You just have to look at how health pools sit and determine. In most raid environments, people won't be sitting low enough long enough to make it worth going for Mastery over Crit. The safest basic recommendation for stats is.

    Spirit > INT > Crit > Mastery > Haste

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-25 at 04:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Biotics83 View Post
    I'm going to be the first to say that you are better off just throwing roughly 2800 stats in the garbage.

    The MP5 you get back from spirit is nothing compared to the amount of mana gained from resurgence. Which you're getting from crits.
    There is no way 2800 Crit is more regen than 2800 Spirit. Looking at my last H Lei Shi kill (which is a very single target focused fight, and as good a fight for Resurgence as you will get), I gained the equivalent of 3111 mp5 from Resurgence. This is with 5403 Crit rating. However, that Crit rating only accounted for about 9% of my total crit (which was about 22% raid buffed). That means that 1273 mp5 was from crit on gear. For 2800 Crit, you would be looking at about 637 mp5. In comparison, Spirit gives about 0.55 mp5 in combat per point. That means that 2800 SPI would give 1540 mp5, which makes it mroe than twice as good for regen than Crit.

  12. #12
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Southern England
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by ray1892 View Post
    There isnt really a HST/HTT sot cap. You should read some more Shaman Forums, you would have noticed that this caps are buggy
    3,764 haste is what I got from Totemspot, so I have at least done some research. Beyond that though, most of what there is on forums is people asking questions such as this, and then getting very conflicting responses

    Quote Originally Posted by Biotics83 View Post
    I'm going to be the first to say that you are better off just throwing roughly 2800 stats in the garbage.

    The MP5 you get back from spirit is nothing compared to the amount of mana gained from resurgence. Which you're getting from crits.

    If someone is new to healing on a shaman and is looking for the best setup its by no means haste especially in a 10 man.

    People should have to take tests to be able to respond to posts on these forums.
    I don't really think there is much that needs to be said in response to this; tibbee has already given some ~napkin math debunking one claim, and the other is just unnecessary, given the context

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ib_di View Post
    3,764 haste is what I got from Totemspot, so I have at least done some research. Beyond that though, most of what there is on forums is people asking questions such as this, and then getting very conflicting responses



    I don't really think there is much that needs to be said in response to this; tibbee has already given some ~napkin math debunking one claim, and the other is just unnecessary, given the context
    I think that the issue with the totem thresholds is that the 3764 threshold is something that mathematically should be the haste breakpoint. However, totems in game are not functioning the same was as HoTs and DoTs, and several people found by testing that the number of ticks you get varies at the same haste levels, and seems to be controlled by player latency. Because you can't reliably gear for breakpoints that are variable and all over the place and may change hour to hour as your latency changes, it severely reduces the value of stacking haste past the basic HR breakpoint (2015 without Ancestral Swiftness).

  14. #14
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Southern England
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    I think that the issue with the totem thresholds is that the 3764 threshold is something that mathematically should be the haste breakpoint. However, totems in game are not functioning the same was as HoTs and DoTs, and several people found by testing that the number of ticks you get varies at the same haste levels, and seems to be controlled by player latency. Because you can't reliably gear for breakpoints that are variable and all over the place and may change hour to hour as your latency changes, it severely reduces the value of stacking haste past the basic HR breakpoint (2015 without Ancestral Swiftness).
    Again with the varying numbers though; Totemspot lists that first point as 2,017. For better or worse, I just checked a source to see what I was aiming for (poor practice as a student, perhaps;p) and then got on with the arduous task of the release daily grind :>
    Regardless, there was a point where I was unable to get ~below about 4,000 haste, even with everything reforged out to other stats, so where I am now is definitely an improvement on that front. I might give a lower haste point a go, if I can manage to get close to it, and see if I experience a larger degree of throughput or not. With that said though, this time of year really isn't great - Christmas really gets in the way of raiding

  15. #15
    The correct numbers are 2017 (it is 2017 not 2015 for the 6th tick of Healing Rain (automatic with Ancestral Swiftness) and 3039 for the 5th tick of ELW (871 with Ancestral Swiftness). If you go with the take Elemental Mastery and reforge haste to 2017 approach, you are still losing a tick off Earthliving Weapon without going to 3039 haste. With ELW accounting for 5-8% of your output, losing 20% off that is fairly significant.

    The haste thresholds for actual HoTs - Riptide, Healing Rain, ELW are all reliable and locked in. It's the thresholds for the totems that is unreliable and varies based on latency.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    There is no way 2800 Crit is more regen than 2800 Spirit. Looking at my last H Lei Shi kill (which is a very single target focused fight, and as good a fight for Resurgence as you will get), I gained the equivalent of 3111 mp5 from Resurgence. This is with 5403 Crit rating. However, that Crit rating only accounted for about 9% of my total crit (which was about 22% raid buffed). That means that 1273 mp5 was from crit on gear. For 2800 Crit, you would be looking at about 637 mp5. In comparison, Spirit gives about 0.55 mp5 in combat per point. That means that 2800 SPI would give 1540 mp5, which makes it mroe than twice as good for regen than Crit.
    who was comparing 2800 spirit to 2800 crit?

    if you read the whole post i was saying putting 2800 stats into haste was a complete waste over putting it into crit or mastery. No one compared 2800 crit to 2800 spirit, not sure how that would even remotely make sense.
    -Biotics-

  17. #17
    It really depends on your role. For aoe healing, you are fine stacking mastery.

    If you plan to single target heal, then you would need more crit to sustain your mana with crits and to heal more with ancestral awakening.

    Your spirit is too low. remember that your mana tide gives 200% of YOUR spirit to the other healers, and shamans use a lot of mana anyway so you will make use of it too.

    Since you are 10 man, i would try to lower mastery and send some points to crit.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2012-12-26 at 05:08 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    It really depends on your role. For aoe healing, you are fine stacking mastery. If you plan to single target heal, then you would need more crit to sustain your mana with crits and to heal more with ancestral awakening.
    Again, I don't like to disagree with you but you're a shaman, you do both. A monk will piss on your aoe healing, they LIFT literally upLIFT have you heard of it? SRSBUSINESS

    Mastery and crit both have the same effects no matter how you're healing. Talk about aoe healing look at the mana cost of your 2 aoe heals HR and what CH? covering a raid in riptide is a waste unless you plan on popping Ascendance and thats only once every 3 min.

    I don't think there is a right answer anymore that's the problem everyone is looking for the "right" way to setup. There are multiple ways now and its whatever you like the feel of. We can all agree that haste just sucks
    -Biotics-

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Biotics83 View Post
    Again, I don't like to disagree with you but you're a shaman, you do both. A monk will piss on your aoe healing, they LIFT literally upLIFT have you heard of it? SRSBUSINESS

    Mastery and crit both have the same effects no matter how you're healing. Talk about aoe healing look at the mana cost of your 2 aoe heals HR and what CH? covering a raid in riptide is a waste unless you plan on popping Ascendance and thats only once every 3 min.

    I don't think there is a right answer anymore that's the problem everyone is looking for the "right" way to setup. There are multiple ways now and its whatever you like the feel of. We can all agree that haste just sucks
    You always heal both, i was talking about what you do more.

    And no, mastery and crit dont have the same effect, you get 0 mana back from resurgence while throwing AOE heals and your ancestral wakening DOESNT proc on AOE heals. And you need to empower your AOE heals with mastery to make sure they heal enough the ones that are low (because they are not big numbers heals like single target).

    So what i said is correct, If you single target geal more than AOE, then you need more crit, if you AOE more, you should get more mastery.

    So before telling someone that is wrong, do some research

    Both are good stats, Crits procs both Resurgence and Ancestral Awakening on Single Target heals, so it gets a little ahead if you use Single target healing more. Mastery gives you more general througput if you AOE heal more (which since i after read he is in 10 man, he probably wont).

    Which is why i told him to send some points to crit after i realized he was talking about 10 man healing and having his mastery so high already.

    Yes, haste sucks, stay away from it.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2012-12-26 at 05:35 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    You always heal both, i was talking about what you do more.

    And no, mastery and crit dont have the same effect, you get 0 mana back from resurgence while throwing AOE heals and your ancestral wakening DOESNT proc on AOE heals. And you need to empower your AOE heals with mastery to make sure they heal enough the ones that are low (because they are not big numbers heals like single target).

    So what i said is correct, If you single target geal more than AOE, then you need more crit, if you AOE more, you should get more mastery.

    So before telling someone that is wrong, do some research

    Both are good stats, Crits procs both Resurgence and Ancestral Awakening on Single Target heals, so it gets a little ahead if you use Single target healing more. Mastery gives you more general througput if you AOE heal more (which since i after read he is in 10 man, he probably wont).

    Which is why i told him to send some points to crit after i realized he was talking about 10 man healing and having his mastery so high already.

    Yes, haste sucks, stay away from it.
    Even if you throw out the regen from Resurgence portion of Crit completely, it's been mathematically proven that Crit beats Mastery from a pure throughput perspective unless the HP of the target you are healing is lower than about 45% for single target heals and 65% for AoE heals (assuming you are using a 3% critical effect Meta gem). For throughput alone, Crit is likely to beat Mastery in most raid situations.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •