1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Healing Tide Totem / lvl75 talent tier

    So, 5.2 is still not finalized, but the lvl75 talent tier seems to be staying the same in general, for Resto. Conductivity got some SoL fixes, but still looks pretty much the same as it has been for all of 5.0.1 and 5.1 in my opinion... HHT being the go to talent, and the other two falling short in a normal raiding situation.

    So, is anyone else drawing a different take on 5.2 (as it is) than I am? I mean, one global doing sometimes 20% of my overall healing, versus two other talents which in general are mana hogs.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  2. #2
    Depending on what cds you have up AG can be far better then healing tide for Ele and Enh.

  3. #3
    Really hope they address how lacklustre tier 3 is. I remember they at least acknowledged that tier 3 was pretty terrible.

    As for HTT and the rest of the tier, really depends on the new fights.

    AG is pretty good on Tsulong with Ascendance.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreyn View Post
    Depending on what cds you have up AG can be far better then healing tide for Ele and Enh.
    AG is definitely better for ENH/ELE. Already on unbuffed single target, especially with damage buffs or aoe situations.

    On Garalon heroic, i put 8mios healing, while healing tide of the elemental was 400k per application -> 1.2 mios only.

    I suspect 8mios > 1.2 mios

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    AG is definitely better for ENH/ELE. Already on unbuffed single target, especially with damage buffs or aoe situations.

    On Garalon heroic, i put 8mios healing, while healing tide of the elemental was 400k per application -> 1.2 mios only.

    I suspect 8mios > 1.2 mios
    Mel'jarak Heroic, been using AG once during Recklessness Buff -> 23Mill, 22Mill Overheal.

    AG is superior in almost any situation as Ele / Enhance.

    But for Dps this tier is relatively balanced, AG is not very useful in PvP, so Dps Shaman pick Healing tide there as well.

    Conductivity seems pretty situational but Healing Tide for Resto is an absolut no brainer in any case, i think HTT will be nerfed and compensated somewhere else.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2012-12-30 at 01:56 PM.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  6. #6
    they cant nerf HTT its to important to us and they cant buff single target heals because of pvp and they are afraid that we would go back to chain heal spam if buffed CH / only riptide hot can be buffed but that would be also big impact for pvp or they need rework lvl 90 tier for resto

    ag for resto could do 20% of riptide hot too and 10% of HR but then to similar to ascendance
    conductivity must be scraped
    Last edited by mrinvisable2; 2012-12-30 at 02:52 PM.

  7. #7
    HTT is taken by 96% of Resto Shaman. The only reason you would ever not take it is for Tsulong. However, for the DPS specs, HTT vs AG is like a 40-60 or 50-50 split. AG is generally better than HTT for DPS because of the 2 minute instead of 3 minute CD and the fact it does not use a GCD. No one is taking Conductivity at all, because it is complete and absolute garbage. They did not do enough to fix it with the initial 5.2 patch notes; it's going to need to be buffed significantly.

    There is just no easy fix to the Healing Tide situation for Resto. It is 10-20% of our total output, and Resto Shaman PvE output does not need to be nerfed; it is either the 5th or 6th best of 6 healing specs in all raid sizes/difficulties. On top of that, if you nerf HTT, DPS would never take it over AG, and even with a 50% nerf to HTT, Resto would probably still favor it because of how mana intensive AG is in terms of getting the same output.

    Any nerf to HTT would require compensation to Resto PvE output somewhere else. That is difficult to do because of PvP implications; the only place they could likely put that output without overbuffing PvP is on Healing Rain, which already is too large of a component of PvE output. The amount of output from a cooldown is relatively high. However, other classes get similar output percentages from Tranquility, Divine Hymn and Revival, so it isn't really that far out of line.

    Realistically, leaving that tier as is and possibly completely redesigning Conductivity would be the best approach. Screwing up Healing Tide has the strong potential to make PvE Resto Shaman as weak as they were in Firelands.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Mel'jarak Heroic, been using AG once during Recklessness Buff -> 23Mill, 22Mill Overheal.

    AG is superior in almost any situation as Ele / Enhance.

    But for Dps this tier is relatively balanced, AG is not very useful in PvP, so Dps Shaman pick Healing tide there as well.

    Conductivity seems pretty situational but Healing Tide for Resto is an absolut no brainer in any case, i think HTT will be nerfed and compensated somewhere else.
    I wouldn't mind if they buffed chain heal a little, sometimes I feel like it does bugger all for healing even when spamming riptide on everyone and chain healing. I almost feel like it's not worth it. Would be great if they made it not consume riptide like that one tier set bonus in cata.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mmines View Post
    I wouldn't mind if they buffed chain heal a little, sometimes I feel like it does bugger all for healing even when spamming riptide on everyone and chain healing. I almost feel like it's not worth it. Would be great if they made it not consume riptide like that one tier set bonus in cata.
    It already hasn't consumed Riptide since 5.0 went live. Chain Heal is possibly something that could stand being buffed without affecting PvP significantly. It's rarely worth casting unless you have excess mana to burn currently.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    There is just no easy fix to the Healing Tide situation for Resto. It is 10-20% of our total output, and Resto Shaman PvE output does not need to be nerfed; it is either the 5th or 6th best of 6 healing specs in all raid sizes/difficulties. On top of that, if you nerf HTT, DPS would never take it over AG, and even with a 50% nerf to HTT, Resto would probably still favor it because of how mana intensive AG is in terms of getting the same output.
    Mana is the sole reason I only choose HHT, the other two talents could work out if they buffed them to reduce mana costs or something jazzy like that. I'm sorry, but a single global that heals 10-20% of my output for the mana cost of less than our lesser heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    Chain Heal is possibly something that could stand being buffed without affecting PvP significantly. It's rarely worth casting unless you have excess mana to burn currently.
    *cough* Make glyph of chaining baseline *cough*

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  11. #11
    Even if they were to give a mana cost decrease with AG up such that spamming HS with AG up didn't make a detrimental dent in your mana, the output would have to be buffed to the point it was significantly stronger than HTT, because of the 10 extra seconds spent casting to get the same result. That change could also never go through because of the PvP impact.

    I don't even think that the Chain Heal jump range is that big of an issue on most fights (on 25 man) this tier. The problem is that the HPS/HPM of Chain Heal even if it jumps to all 4 targets and is buffed by Riptide is too weak to make it worth the mana expenditure most of the time. Unless you are trying to burn mana, you are usually better off with just spot Healing Waves or Lightning Bolts with the TC glyph to bank more mana for later. From a "doing the best thing to keep the raid alive" perspective as opposed to a HPS meter padding perspective, it's arguably better to just save the mana you would use on CH for more Healing Surges on targets that dip low. The only exception would probably be when Ascendance is up. CH just doesn't hit hard enough.

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