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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    This generation is way too obsessed with freaking numbers. If the game remains playable then wtf are you on about. Who needs 60+fps in a town centre. You wont die in a townsquare because you lacked the 4fps difference required to surive now will you.



    I find it hard to believe you get 99% cpu/gpu load all the time, because that would mean in the townquare you'd have gotten a fps increase when you swapped to the 690. Besides, they can't be both at full load, it's one or the other..That means you're not reading the utilities properly and need to work on that first, before you go making decisions on what hardware needs replacing on not.



    BS. Visual aesthetics are not negatively impacted by having fps BELOW your monitor refreshrate. Only when you go OVER it do you get tearing.

    Without trolling, i think you're terribly spoiled and just need to get over the fact that some games (Especially MMO's) don't always run silky smooth 60/120fps. My god if PC-gamers in the start were like this we'd have never gotten arround to playing games on it. Performance on the PC has only improved, not gotten worse. And it's because of this the newer generation is terribly spoiled by the AAA-singleplayer performance, without giving thought that this might not work with 100 non-scripted players running arround the same area.
    Keep in mind we cannot visibly see what is on his screen, I've said before 30-60-120 it will not matter if you get 100% rendered frames. Now certains things happen and in almost any situation you will get 90% or less rendered frames, this imperfection is what the eye notices between 29.9 to infinite frames per second as "LAG" not to be confused w/ internet lagging or latency. Now the good thing about higher frequency is, if you are getting roughly the same rendering as 60 fps then because the images are @ 100% increased rate of speed it seems more fluid, mere milliseconds removed but it is all about blurring into a simulated true motion, which cannot be achieved atm by a video game. Similar to how you can watch some insanely awesome CGI movies etc and have perfect frames because it is playback and not rendering so all frames are 100%.

  2. #42
    I think it is a software problem not a hardware one. OR.. hdd's fault..
    If u say u reinstalled the PC and it still does that crap, i would ask, what exactly did u reinstall? U mighthave reinstalled the same problematic software that was causing this. Id suggest reinstalling everything again, this time for experimental purposes maybe on an optical drive, and install only the game/games and drivers.. nothing else, no antiviruses nothing.. not even all the drivers are needed, not even the latest. Then try the games.. if u get good fps.. continue with installing everything else, then try again when everything is installed. And u might find ur trouble maker. Then reinstall everything back to SSD when ur sure it is not the SSD, though if everything works fine etc, then u might start blaming the SSD :P
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  3. #43
    Brewmaster Majesticii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    Keep in mind we cannot visibly see what is on his screen <...> all frames are 100%.
    You have any documentation of this fact?
    Sincere question, i'm interested.

  4. #44
    Stood in the Fire
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    I run a gtx 670 and an i5 3570k, my performance is fine. No idea where yours is going wrong.

  5. #45
    Brewmaster Majesticii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucette View Post
    I run a gtx 670 and an i5 3570k, my performance is fine. No idea where yours is going wrong.
    You're probably less 'iffy' about stuff :P

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    You have any documentation of this fact?
    Sincere question, i'm interested.
    We talked about this forever ago, eyes do not have shutters refresh rate is the same concept of a flipbook cartoon, the faster is goes the smoother it looks, but if you were to add 90% of the image every few pages it would look choppy, increasing the speed and not increasing the the 90% images would make our eyes less able to distinguish the images. Just google a factual article about the eye and refresh frequency.

  7. #47
    Brewmaster Majesticii's Avatar
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    I understand the concept, but why would there at some point only be 90% of the images.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    I understand the concept, but why would there at some point only be 90% of the images.
    Ahh see gaming is not like recording, in that it is actually DRAWing these images, so to answer your question its just the same as a human messing up while typing.

  9. #49
    Brewmaster Majesticii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    Ahh see gaming is not like recording, in that it is actually DRAWing these images, so to answer your question its just the same as a human messing up while typing.
    This would be random, and in no way measureable. And imply the computer making mistakes (consistently), so hardware reliant. This still doesn't really sound like a plausible thing. And don't condescend me, i know how stuff works. That's why i'm asking the question, because it sounds really undocumented to me.
    Last edited by Majesticii; 2012-12-31 at 04:47 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    This would be random, and in no way measureable. And imply the computer making mistakes (consistently), so hardware reliant. This still doesn't really sound like a plausible thing. And don't condescend me, i know how stuff works. That's why i'm asking the question, because it sounds really undocumented to me.
    I didn't say it was consistent, or you'd have consistent lag not fluctuating FPS. I was using the consistent concept to explain further how if you chop an image or dont complete it that you would easily be able to detect it @ lower frames and find it harder @ higher VIEWABLE frames. Now IDK about you but I make mistakes when I type I sure as hell do not do it in a consistent order or timing, but rather randomly with the situation of whats on your mind, 1 word? 1 sentence? 1 paragraph? You likely won't mess up a single word, you could tho. A pc obviously can have consistent issues w/ frames and there is always ways to compensate it, turning graphics down? This in turn allows more frames to be fully rendered and or not dropped completely, again just proving you really didn't understand anything about this.

    It is completely illogical to say "I know how stuff works" and not get that I explained your eyes only being able to perceive 30-60-120hz because of the rate of speed it can throw frames out which means the minor MINOR details you think is just your eye seeing low frames is actually incompleted frames even if you see 60FPS constantly you could be seeing anywhere from 1 to 10~ frames usually @ a sube 80% render but that flickers by in one sixtieth to 1 6th of a second, in turn the game looks amazing right but then you see joe schmo on a 120Hz monitor pushing 100~ frames again w/ anywhere from 1-10~ frames being not good so it just looks better cuz they are now gone in 1 one hundredth of a second or like 1 tenth, both of which are insanely faster and this makes it harder for our eyes to depict the imperfections. We do not SEE framerates and anything @ 30+ fps 100% will look like solid true motion.
    Last edited by Milkshake86; 2012-12-31 at 11:23 PM.

  11. #51
    Oh look, another fps debate.

    It's not anyone's business to question my desire for over 60fps. Either try to help with the situation or don't post at all.

  12. #52
    The answer is to stop throwing money at the problem hoping it will somehow magically fix it.

  13. #53
    Brewmaster Majesticii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    It is completely illogical to say "I know how stuff works" and not get that I explained your eyes only ...bla bla
    I've found this post:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...927&viewfull=1
    Where you claimed the same thing, but i've yet to find any mentioning of incomplete frames in the article. I think you misread this article:
    http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html into thinking it sends imcompleted frames, because it doesn't. What happens is that it sends a new frame to the buffer while the screen is still drawing the old image, visually it then appears like 2 half images (tearing). This is no error by the computer, or mistake, just a out-of-sync issue. The frames in the buffer are still perfectly fine, the screen just can't manage to refresh so fast. Something like this: http://i.imgur.com/cS5Yh.jpg

    And again, stop attacking people personally or calling them incapable/stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by wombinator04 View Post
    Oh look, another fps debate.

    It's not anyone's business to question my desire for over 60fps. Either try to help with the situation or don't post at all.
    Your desire to reach over 60fps in a region with lots of unscripted CPU intensive area's on ultra graphics is unreasonable, i thought we already covered this.
    Last edited by Majesticii; 2013-01-01 at 11:13 AM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    Your desire to reach over 60fps in a region with lots of unscripted CPU intensive area's on ultra graphics is unreasonable, i thought we already covered this.
    i think this is /endthread. no MMOs stay over 60 fps on max graphics at all times ever. ever. 25 mans in wow, remember ultraxion? that thing brought every computer to a crawl at certain points.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Majesticii View Post
    I've found this post:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...927&viewfull=1
    Where you claimed the same thing, but i've yet to find any mentioning of incomplete frames in the article. I think you misread this article:
    http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html into thinking it sends imcompleted frames, because it doesn't. What happens is that it sends a new frame to the buffer while the screen is still drawing the old image, visually it then appears like 2 half images (tearing). This is no error by the computer, or mistake, just a out-of-sync issue. The frames in the buffer are still perfectly fine, the screen just can't manage to refresh so fast. Something like this: http://i.imgur.com/cS5Yh.jpg

    And again, stop attacking people personally or calling them incapable/stupid.



    Your desire to reach over 60fps in a region with lots of unscripted CPU intensive area's on ultra graphics is unreasonable, i thought we already covered this.
    That is screen tearing it is always visible when it happens and is not incomplete frames. Again not what im referencing but is the original reason Vertical sync was created, but it also serves a nice purpose of keeping the frames at a more manageable pace so things like incompleted frames also gain benefit simply because if its having issues @60 but drops to a divisible w/ a more manageable number the frames again begin to look smooth, this is why VSYNC is often recommended for non screen tearing issues of FPS loss. I'd go more into and tell ya about the conversation Vesseblah brought up about latency between frames but w/e, how could a computer be stupid enough to make that mistake right? Consistent latency spikes in a sometimes consistent and sometimes inconsistent way, not possible by your standards.

    Simply put if you cannot comprehend that a computer makes mistakes and will do incomplete work when its getting low on useable resources then you simply do not understand that I just said your PC will freeze up glitch and send out error reports instead of doing what it should have, but again you think the HARDWARE is intelligent, AHAHAHAHAHHAHA even in the TERMINATOR Skynet is nothing but SOFTWARE/FIRMWARE, the hardware is NOTHING without its software and firmware, wtf can you do on a full pc w/ no bios of any sort? No matching firmware absolutely NOTHING just hardware, its basically an EMPed pos, it in essence is a damned corpse being kept alive for organ transplant. Even the science fictional AI insanity is always the software because even a CPU is not capable of thought w/o the directive of its use, similar to if you were born completely brain dead you wouldnt know anything you probably can't see move hear feel touch etc all this crap goes w/ pc's WE created them and WE limit the potential and as of right now current hardware falters w/ current software, we just find these faults acceptable enough for use.

    Tl;Dr

    What would you call it when you go from 60 fps to 30? for a quarter of a second? I'd call it incompleted, and would you say a dropped frames is a completed frame or an incompleted one? Now understand when the PC gets a little choked but not severely, it will send 99% frames 90% frames because the actual detail loss to the eye is much more playable than a similar just screen lock looking situation.
    Last edited by Milkshake86; 2013-01-01 at 04:17 PM.

  16. #56
    The OP is posting problems that can not be fixed. You will not always have over 60 FPS in a MMO that is a fact. He has also created other threads about this issue and has not looked into the replies in the thread. He went against someone saying to not by a GTX 690 because it won't increase frames but he did exactly that.

    I don't see the OP looking into our responses at all so this thread is near useless and has just sparked up an FPS debate.

  17. #57
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    That is screen tearing it is always visible when it happens and is not incomplete frames.
    What are you even taking about? You're changing around your vocabulary so much it's impossible to understand what you're trying to make a point about. Are you talking about bugs regarding "incomplete" rendering? Frames not in synch with refresh rates? Human eyes viewing something as "choppy" at certain frame rates? Your argument isn't the slightest bit clear.

    Also, cut out the insults. If you can't express a point without insulting someone, your point isn't worth expressing. These are supposed to be some of the more level-headed parts of the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by wombinator04 View Post
    Oh look, another fps debate.

    It's not anyone's business to question my desire for over 60fps. Either try to help with the situation or don't post at all.
    To put it plainly, you're not going to see over 60 fps at all times. Some games will simply have bottlenecks that you can't avoid. MMO's will likely be the biggest offenders of this for a variety of reasons related to coding, and I wouldn't be surprised if any online component of a game suffers similar issues.
    Last edited by Badpaladin; 2013-01-01 at 06:30 PM.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombinator04 View Post
    Oh look, another fps debate.

    It's not anyone's business to question my desire for over 60fps. Either try to help with the situation or don't post at all.
    Your setup is more than fine, when it comes to MMO's a lot of it is related to the code for said game and also depending on how populated the area/server you are in affects it to. When you're in Lion's Arch there's usually a decent amount of people, well the server has to send you data when people move/spells/talk etc. etc. and then your CPU/GPU needs to process the information, so MMO's in general will have lower FPS in heavily populated areas and in raids like wow because of the amount of data and calculations being processed and then displayed at once plus the server lag added in to that. Overall there's not much you really can do but OC your CPU like you have.
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  19. #59
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    Damn you guys, we don't need ANOTHER debate about FPS over 60, they never end well.

    BTW OP, you tried installing the game on a non-SSD drive? I ask because SSD tend to be "cheap" and not last long (specially previous generations) even tho they are very fast so using a good old mechanical hard disk for testing WoW might give surprising results.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrax View Post
    Damn you guys, we don't need ANOTHER debate about FPS over 60, they never end well.

    BTW OP, you tried installing the game on a non-SSD drive? I ask because SSD tend to be "cheap" and not last long (specially previous generations) even tho they are very fast so using a good old mechanical hard disk for testing WoW might give surprising results.
    First, SSD's have no impact on fps. It will impact loading. And an SSD is going to load considerably faster. And they last a helluva lot longer than mechanical hard disks.

    And they aren't "cheap". They're much more expensive per gigabyte than hdd's.
    Last edited by Last Starfighter; 2013-01-02 at 02:56 AM.
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