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  1. #1

    Remove heroic raid journal

    Heroic raiders shouldn't have that kind of cheat sheets

    The heroic only boss Ra-den or something doesn't have it so why don't we make every heroic bosses like that

  2. #2
    It wouldn't really change it much. Wowhead already datamines all the abilities rather quickly, so it would only delay their source of information by a few days.

    Also, why is it a "cheat sheet"? And why only heroric raiders?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Heroic raiders shouldn't have that kind of cheat sheets

    The heroic only boss Ra-den or something doesn't have it so why don't we make every heroic bosses like that
    Ra-den doesn't have it yet.

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  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Heroic raiders shouldn't have that kind of cheat sheets

    The heroic only boss Ra-den or something doesn't have it so why don't we make every heroic bosses like that
    No problem. I know how to use google.

  5. #5
    Honestly, it's not a cheat sheet. You're also a couple years behind on complaining about this.

    But yeah, the amount of information you can actually glean from it is laughably small. You can see what abilities the boss has and how much they hit for, durations, stuff like that... But they honestly don't help much when actually progressing on a boss. There've been a lot of times when I've read the dungeon journal, built up an image in my head of what the abilities looks like/will do... Then get kicked to the floor when it's actually completely different from what I expected.

    Worst offender for this was Elegon. The dungeon journal really doesn't do his fight justice.

    Besides, removing the dungeon journal would only affect like, the top 50-100 of guilds. Every other guild will have video/written guides to use, same as always.

  6. #6
    Doesn't everything get datamined anyway? So the journal is really giving nothing away that most high end guilds don't already know? Besides that they've already seen most of the fights on the PTR anyway.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    The Dungeon Journal exists for the large number of players that *never* go to strat sites for their encounter information. I know it is difficult to comprehend for those of us who have been doing this since they became popular early-on in tBC, but there are literally legions of people that don't. They log on, they play, they log off - end of story.

    All the Journal really does is provide them with a very, very basic boss mod and Atlas loot in the same interface. If you think that that info is going to make or break a world-first race, because that is what this post is really about, you are fooling yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  8. #8
    You can basicly get all the information in the dungeon journal by wiping once or twice, so i dont see your point.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Hanto's Avatar
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    I heard it was like... substantially harder to use Google to find boss abilities and strats. :[ With your suggestion, we'll have to spend an extra minute or two (if that) tabbed looking for the info. Oh noes!

    But seriously, everything that bosses do is already exposed long before the raid is released. The journal makes it so you don't have to tab out to read the info (and it's cleaner). Also, it's not a cheat sheet; nor has having knowledge of any encounter before hand ever been. Knowing is half the fight, and if you're in any sort of progression and/or competitive raiding guild, you'll know pretty much what's going on before you get to the boss. I mean hell, DBM has warnings and everything before the patch is even live.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    The Dungeon Journal exists for the large number of players that *never* go to strat sites for their encounter information. I know it is difficult to comprehend for those of us who have been doing this since they became popular early-on in tBC, but there are literally legions of people that don't. They log on, they play, they log off - end of story.

    All the Journal really does is provide them with a very, very basic boss mod and Atlas loot in the same interface. If you think that that info is going to make or break a world-first race, because that is what this post is really about, you are fooling yourself.
    Most people who fall under the catagory of "I don't want to go to youtube/some external website/etc usually won't bother reading the dungeon journal either way :P


    @Op the Dungeon Journal gives away such a small amount of information that it doesn't affect much. If they remove it, all it would do for your typical gamer is require them to go to an external website (which they would typically be doing anyways if they are seriously interested in looking up fight mechanics). Not much change unfortunately.

    Personally I'll read the journal before pulling a fight, but the journal usually reads like this: Standing in this mechanic is bad. This spell can be dispellable (raid frame tells me this already), this mechanic is deadly. This mechanic requires a tank swap. Most of the mechanics, even if you READ them first, still require you to SEE it before you fully understand what it is doing or what to expect/how to react.

    Interesting thing to note, most people didn't know that the p2 big dragons on Sinestra could eat up the Whelp puddles from p1 at the cost of doing more damage until after the journal was released, but it wasn't something anyone ever NEEDED to do as it wasn't really a net gain to do it even if people knew about it.
    Last edited by Affiniti; 2012-12-31 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Everything is always datamined for addons like dbm, bigwigs etc, so it doesn't really matter.

  12. #12
    High Overlord Vexxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    Ra-den doesn't have it yet.
    Op is correct, Ra-den won't have a journal entry. That's made perfectly clear in the journal that has been datamined.

  13. #13
    affiniti is right. everything you can learn from the dungeon journal is learned in the first, what, maybe 5 pulls on a new boss? it wouldn't make that big of a deal.

  14. #14
    I'm curious about OP's progression if he thinks the dungeon journal is that big of a deal.

    Heroic-only boss is neat. No dungeon journal is a moot point.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Honestly, it's not a cheat sheet. You're also a couple years behind on complaining about this.

    But yeah, the amount of information you can actually glean from it is laughably small. You can see what abilities the boss has and how much they hit for, durations, stuff like that... But they honestly don't help much when actually progressing on a boss. There've been a lot of times when I've read the dungeon journal, built up an image in my head of what the abilities looks like/will do... Then get kicked to the floor when it's actually completely different from what I expected.

    Worst offender for this was Elegon. The dungeon journal really doesn't do his fight justice.

    Besides, removing the dungeon journal would only affect like, the top 50-100 of guilds. Every other guild will have video/written guides to use, same as always.
    Nailed it.
    It tells you what the mechanics are, not how you deal with/avoid/use them to your advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  16. #16
    I agree. In fact, take it one step further.

    In order for Heroic raiding to be truly Heroic, I believe that bosses should have a grab bag of 8,124.32 (repeating of course) abilities which they use at random. This way, encounters are always different and the only way you can kill a Heroic boss is by being fully prepared for any of the innumerable instant-wipe mechanics which the game generates. Finally, the game will feel like it did back in Naxx/SWP again! I'm sure EVERYBODY agrees that raiding was vastly superior to its current iteration back then.


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  17. #17
    This would do nothing, it gets datamined and somebody would probably come out with a heroic raid manual add on to replace it anyways.

  18. #18
    The Journal doesn't get updated with hotfixes and often shows misleading information and bad wording. Any serious raider would be going outside the game anyway.
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  19. #19
    lets see i clear heroics with my guildies. we aint top of the pack but we do well enough.

    how often do we use dungeon journal? let's see: when we want too link a certain ability too see how long it lasts or how it does damage (is it a dot/instant or is it dispelable)
    how often does that happen? euh almost never

  20. #20
    Kind of wish the dungeon journal was actually a 'journal'. Make it blank initially but as you experience raid mechanics fill it in for the people who aren't able to interpret combat logs.

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