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  1. #21
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEaterofSouls View Post
    Define "Good Graphics" What makes a game look good graphics wise? If a game uses a different style does that mean it has poor graphics?

    I mean just look at Wind Waker. every inch of the game is art. Does it have "bad graphics". Do we really need to improve on them?
    Don't give ideas from sony to nintendo, we will have a re-release of TWW named: "The Wind Waker HD Prime" with dlc's on the cd. but shh...

    Console gaming nowadays looks less tempting as time goes on, deals on online selling companies are far better for the customer than retailers, blockbuster/netflix comes to mind.

    A good console doesn't require hardcore new graphics, you can do fairly well with a not-so strong system, look at chrono trigger, that game was beautiful, or donkey kong for the Snes.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by howdydiddlydoo View Post
    PC's are an amzing example of technologically advanced hardware, and no software which utilises it. Kind of like a ferrari with no driver to drive it. 5 year old consoles with fully and totally optimised games, will for the most part not be far behind their high end PC counterparts.


    I am afraid to say that the biggest problem in the gaming World is PC games NEVER fully utilising optimal PC power.


    The Xbox 720 and PS4 when they come out, will have games looking far better than on any high end PC game we have at the moment because the software will be more developed to make better looking games.
    PC games mostly lack the capability to utilize their full hardware potentional for the simple reason consoles exist. There's only so much you can optimize while making a port, and most big titles that'd have the budget to do that sort of graphics on PC are all multi-platform releases that have to be ported one way or the other, or simply console exclusives. Care to explain why PC versions pretty much uniformly look bettwer than their console counterparts?

    At the very moment new gen console games get released, there will be a similar spike in PC quality as the cock-block has been nudged upwards. The problem you're presenting as a flaw of the system is caused by external forces, namely, consoles. If the console market had died out when it stopped being relevant, this problem would not exist today.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans TheEaterofSouls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    Don't give ideas from sony to nintendo, we will have a re-release of TWW named: "The Wind Waker HD Prime" with dlc's on the cd. but shh...

    Console gaming nowadays looks less tempting as time goes on, deals on online selling companies are far better for the customer than retailers, blockbuster/netflix comes to mind.

    A good console doesn't require hardcore new graphics, you can do fairly well with a not-so strong system, look at chrono trigger, that game was beautiful, or donkey kong for the Snes.
    TBH I would give in and buy an HD WW. But that's because i lost the original and can't find it at any GS. :/

    But correct graphics/= better console. Remember what we've learned from the past with things like the ......jaguar and 32x.............

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kivipää View Post
    PC games mostly lack the capability to utilize their full hardware potentional for the simple reason consoles exist. There's only so much you can optimize while making a port, and most big titles that'd have the budget to do that sort of graphics on PC are all multi-platform releases that have to be ported one way or the other, or simply console exclusives. Care to explain why PC versions pretty much uniformly look bettwer than their console counterparts?
    They look better MOSTLY because the PC hardware can push resolutions higher.

    PC's are hampered by software development that are responsible for animation, camera movement and texture realism.

    When the new consoles come out, these areas of development will be further advanced still, and as such games will look better on both PC and console. The PC's will still run console counterparts and will do so in higher resolutions.

    720 and PS4 games will look better than high end PC games of today though, even with worse hardware, simply because development methods will have improved.

    Too many people put faith in polygon counts and resolution, which are not nearly as important as other things that make graphics look good.
    Last edited by howdydiddlydoo; 2012-12-30 at 08:43 PM.

  5. #25
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    i just hope the new consoles are backwards compatible

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEaterofSouls View Post
    Define "Good Graphics" What makes a game look good graphics wise? If a game uses a different style does that mean it has poor graphics?

    I mean just look at Wind Waker. every inch of the game is art. Does it have "bad graphics". Do we really need to improve on them?
    I remember this game got slammed hard for the graphic style when it came out. Some liked it at the time, while others thought it was an insult to the series. Time has been very kind to Wind Waker. And you are right; increased power and resources are not the only way to improve the quality of graphics, having devs and artists that understand there is more to a game's aesthetic than having a high polygon count helps.

  7. #27
    I don't really care about the finer details of the new console's 'power', I just want them to reach the point that they use 2048x2048 textures as standard, as well as being able to run ALL games released at 1920x1080 60fps, no exceptions. Most games these days have all the visual effects and motion blurring nonsense they need, but as soon as you step close to another character or a wall, you realise it's a blurry mess. And more often than not, PC ports/versions of games do not gain the benefit of Hi-Res textures. Or if they do, it's months later or from a mod.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    IAnd more often than not, PC ports/versions of games do not gain the benefit of Hi-Res textures. Or if they do, it's months later or from a mod.
    Exaclty what i am talking about.

    Multi-platform development costs are always cheaper when you develop the game for the weakest platform. This has the unfortunate side effect of the strongest platform never living up to potential.

    PS3 is a classic example of this. Outshines the XBox 360 hardware, but manages to use this hardware on a mere handful of exclusive only games because multi-platform games were designed to work on the 360 first to keep development costs down.

  9. #29
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    As long as consoles exists they will damage pc ports up to a point that some extremely good titles will never see the light of computers (GTA V which is still doubted or Red Dead Redemption) or will have sucky ports (The way aiming works on darksiders II with the mouse is just... ugh)

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by twizter View Post
    i just hope the new consoles are backwards compatible
    i dont remember where i read this so i may be completely wrong but i couldve sworn i read somewhere that the ps4 wont be backwards compatible.

    no clue what microsoft is doing since this will only be their 3rd console and their 2nd was only backwards compatible with a handful of games.

    hopefully im wrong about the ps4 thing since id like to buy the kingdom hearts remakes and hold off on playing them till the ps4 comes out
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  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    Some people dont get that a lot of people just would never dream of playing games on a PC all day. Consoles arent going to go anywhere any time soon. Maybe if more pc games were usable with a game pad they might become more popular, probably why steams is making this steambox thing. (this coming from someone that just spent a fortune on a gaming pc).

    As for ps3/xbox, i dont think there really needs to be a massive spike in graphics, like other people id prefer it if games didnt become even more expensive to make, theres no creativity these days because games with good graphics are so expensive to make developers dont take risks. I dont want that to become even worse. That said the graphics on wii were shit and almost none of the games appealed to me :P.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgemesh View Post
    We've reached a cliff. Our programming knowledge is far behind the hardware.
    This is not true. It's just not cost effective in any form to use the full capability of the processing power we have beyond tech demos to sell actual hardware.
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  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Bladeface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howdydiddlydoo View Post
    The Xbox 360 and PS3 are 10 year old hardware, and they still manage to look not a whole lot worse than PC games.

    Games look great because of texture, animation, camera movement. Higher polygon counts and higher resolutions are least important.

    PC's are an amzing example of technologically advanced hardware, and no software which utilises it. Kind of like a ferrari with no driver to drive it. 5 year old consoles with fully and totally optimised games, will for the most part not be far behind their high end PC counterparts.


    I am afraid to say that the biggest problem in the gaming World is PC games NEVER fully utilising optimal PC power.


    The Xbox 720 and PS4 when they come out, will have games looking far better than on any high end PC game we have at the moment because the software will be more developed to make better looking games.
    must be bad at math bro they came out in 2005/2006 respectively not 2002....
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  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
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    The thing with "HD remakes" is that alot of them (in general if they're 3d and simple enough textures) look better if you emulate them and crank the res/anti-aliasing way up.
    Seeing how the consoles render in 720p, 30fps and no AA for the majority of titles the difference really strikes you.
    Heard rumors that the next gen will be using 30fps too...

  15. #35
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladeface View Post
    must be bad at math bro they came out in 2005/2006 respectively not 2002....
    Im guessing they took atleast a few years to develop.

  16. #36
    Certainly not as disapointing as WiiU. Seriously, whose idea was to make a console that is both a TV and a hand held one?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    (The way aiming works on darksiders II with the mouse is just... ugh)
    Wait what? Explanation on this one. Darksiders 2 had its share of console artifacts but aiming was ok for adventure game.

  18. #38
    Pit Lord barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Wait what? Explanation on this one. Darksiders 2 had its share of console artifacts but aiming was ok for adventure game.
    Try to aim at targets with mouse, the mouse acceleration is just bad to say the least.



    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Certainly not as disapointing as WiiU. Seriously, whose idea was to make a console that is both a TV and a hand held one?
    Interesting when you have only one main tv on your house living room, the one on my bedroom is for pc/tv, I like playing on a big ass tv (which also has home theater/dvd).

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Certainly not as disapointing as WiiU. Seriously, whose idea was to make a console that is both a TV and a hand held one?
    Exactly what i thought until i played for my first time last night where my opinion changed.

    The multiplayer experience is amazing.

    For example - A game of "hide and seek" on Nintendo Land.

    The person hiding will see every player on the handheld, whilst the seekers will only see themselves on the TV. It's innovative, works amazingly well, and above all is really, really good fun.

    From a pure fun point of view (moreso multiplayer though), the Wii U dominates all consoles.

  20. #40
    Brewmaster Help ol Gil Out's Avatar
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    The PC is pretty much held hostage by consoles with developers who see dolla dolla bills since they can just make a game multi-platform and cash in big rather than remain PC-only. Unfortunately, most ports are lousy not only in terms of performance but for the lack of graphic options as well. Sometimes they simply throw in baseline features such as resolution and keyboard/mouse support and roll it out the door. A game such as Borderlands 2 being the exception but that's likely because of all the flak they got from the BL1 port which didn't even have a FOV option unless you dicked around in a .ini file.

    Last I heard, the PS4 will support 'up to' 4096x2160 resolution or 1920x1080 stereoscopic with 'up to' being the key word which is much the same as when Sony announced the PS3 can play in 1080p but the reality being it uses up/downscaled at around 720p which is likely the same as the 360.

    Consoles are just too limited when it comes down to the nitty gritty hardware specs for the reason of remaining affordable to the general public which often translates to being behind the curb by several generations by the time they are launched compared to their PC counterpart. Granted, it usually takes a couple generations to see the full-potential of what a console can achieve in terms of graphics but even then, I would be very skeptical that even the best looking next-gen console game would look as good or better than FarCry 3 on Ultra but be capped at 30 fps and by then, who knows where the PC tech will be.

    Maybe once FarCry 4 comes out on next-gen consoles and PC (assuming one would), we can come back and look at this again and compare notes.
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