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  1. #1

    Not moving when casting requirement?

    What do you think of it, should it be there? Maybe it's wrong to compare it to guild wars 2, but I like the system where you can cast everything on the move, and as I can see, it's not causing any balance issues. It's much more fluid, fun and playable. Is there a reason that devs want people to hammer themselves to one place or is it maybe the wrong way where they are headed?

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    To be able to cast everything while moving would require a major change to raid fights. Almost all require some form of movement and usually punish you if you don't, death, or do too much of it, shit dps/wipe. It's a core mechanic for raiding, minimize movement to maximize dps time.

    As much as I like the idea of it, I wouldn't want to see it implemented in WoW.

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  3. #3
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I wouldn't like it because precise movement is one of the trademarks of good raiders, particularly good spellcasters (healers included). It would also completely screw up pvp.

    The only way it could work is to also be able to dodge direct abilities while moving, but then it wouldn't be world of warcraft anymore.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    It would also completely screw up pvp.
    That would require pvp being well designed and balanced to begin with..

  5. #5
    Would require an entire overhaul of how everything from leveling, pvping, and pveing work. Sounds cool but probably not practical.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    It's one of those things that if WoW 2.0 were being made, I would like to see it in.

  7. #7
    I think its a bad idea. Its part of the style. If u want to move while doing damage play a dotclass or better play a melee.
    Mages are the artillery of the game: Slow and weak but great at damaging. And thats fine in my opinion.

  8. #8
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Actually their defences are focused on evasion, so they're not slow. When warlocks can cast on the move via KJC, the whole argument for the supposedly more mobile mage class not to withers away. I am fine with Scorch being baselined. It doesn't do terrific damage, anyway.

    if they want particular classes to sit still and cast then they need to structure the game to reward it. At present it doesn't.

  9. #9
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomathan View Post
    I think its a bad idea. Its part of the style. If u want to move while doing damage play a dotclass or better play a melee.
    Mages are the artillery of the game: Slow and weak but great at damaging. And thats fine in my opinion.
    The modern game is not designed with a stationary nuke class in mind. There needs to be a critical reevaluation of exactly what role mages are supposed to fill, and then they need to be tailored in order to complete it.
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  10. #10
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The modern game is not designed with a stationary nuke class in mind. There needs to be a critical reevaluation of exactly what role mages are supposed to fill, and then they need to be tailored in order to complete it.
    Scorch with moving should be baseline IMO, mages are very stationary as it is...
    Wish all casters were a little more stationary TBH. It takes away what was traditionally one of the big downsides to casters. (Source)
    Stationary may look good from a design theory perspective, but it's really not fun to play glued to the floor.
    At the end of the day, there aren't many ways we can challenge folks. If we can't make moving a challenge, we lose a big one. (Source)

    GC's response to mage mobility. Sounds like we get to expect this to be the direction moving forward...
    Last edited by Methusula; 2013-01-01 at 04:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    Scorch with moving should be baseline IMO, mages are very stationary as it is...
    Wish all casters were a little more stationary TBH. It takes away what was traditionally one of the big downsides to casters. (Source)
    Stationary may look good from a design theory perspective, but it's really not fun to play glued to the floor.
    At the end of the day, there aren't many ways we can challenge folks. If we can't make moving a challenge, we lose a big one. (Source)

    GC's response to mage mobility. Sounds like we get to expect this to be the direction moving forward...
    I agree with GC. Melee is for moving ranged should be much stronger while standing still.

    I've always thought the most enjoyable part of a mage is adapting your rotation to mechanics as they happen and movement is a large part of this.

    Everyone moving all the time is not fun. e.g. GW2...
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  12. #12
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I agree with GC. Melee is for moving ranged should be much stronger while standing still.

    I've always thought the most enjoyable part of a mage is adapting your rotation to mechanics as they happen and movement is a large part of this.

    Everyone moving all the time is not fun. e.g. GW2...
    Yes, except this goes counter to the fact that Blizzard repeatedly designs boss mechanics that favor more mobile classes.
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  13. #13
    Warchief Kilpi's Avatar
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    It was ok and fun in GW2, but mainly 'cause you only basicly have 4 abilities. Though even in GW2 it makes a difference while you level.

  14. #14
    It is already in the game roll a hunter or warlock

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Yes, except this goes counter to the fact that Blizzard repeatedly designs boss mechanics that favor more mobile classes.
    I think what he(GC) is trying to say is that he would like more classes to be like mages atm, and limit ranged movement..

    But there are a lot of problems to that, mostly melee having really good distance closers atm, I mean a dps warrior just wont loose much dps time on anything, a good rogue wont loose much dps time on moving.. Plus melee mostly can just dps secondary targets while moving to that new target. And then there are all the ranged classes that have nearly free movement. So ye not likely to happen that..

    That doesn't mean that I'm for the totally free movement style. There still should be some kind of reason to not move 24/7. But atm for mages there is so much overlap, that even if you can move cause of your rotation, there is still something that will lower our dps, and for Arcane that is just redic atm, as your only real "free" movement in your rotation is scorch and LB/NT refresh. And even from those scorch is going to disappear. So we have just the dot. Or we need to take a massive hit to our dps to use Arcane Barrage on less than optimal timing.

    Now thats not to say this cant be fixed, for instance lowering or reworking the cd on Icy Flows(45 sec is just too long to be worth picking, you need more like once every 10 secs), moving PoM to baseline spell that all mages have, Replacing PoM's spot with Blazing Speed(BS just doesnt belong with the shield tier). And adjusting Scorch to be decent option bethween the rest for all specs. And then just figuring a new spell for the shield tier, for instance 1 time massive reactive absorb.

    And then the most crucial change that needs to happen.. and that is removing mana component from T6 talents. Removing the shield component from Incanter's Ward as its just silly remnant from old talents. And then just balancing the spells in a way that each has their own flavor and strenght, but still in a way that when standing still the difference is minimal. And that needs some new design for RoP aswell. And what that is atm, I have no real answer.. 1 thing that might work is that RoP has higher damage increase that fades away at such a rate that it wont be worth recasting it, but still it would balance in a way that its minimal increase over IW and Invoc when standing still and if you have to move you dont suffer as much, and for the same reason casting RoP while moving would be really nice.

    But that is just how I see it.

  16. #16
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    It's there already, just fill the dps slots with warlocks and vola
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by zeNNoN View Post
    What do you think of it, should it be there? Maybe it's wrong to compare it to guild wars 2, but I like the system where you can cast everything on the move, and as I can see, it's not causing any balance issues. It's much more fluid, fun and playable. Is there a reason that devs want people to hammer themselves to one place or is it maybe the wrong way where they are headed?
    Well my fine friend, in our days of world of warcraft u dont even have to cast anymore! atleast from a pvp perspective.
    Havent you heard? its world of instacraft! bash buttons and bash cd's and win! or wait 2 min and do the same!

  18. #18
    Warchief Viscoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post

    if they want particular classes to sit still and cast then they need to structure the game to reward it. At present it doesn't.
    Rune of power, invocation, sniper training. Three things I could think of off the top of my head, though since the last time I touched survival was in Wrath for about 20 seconds to just play with explosive shot, I don't know if sniper training is still in the game.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Viscoe View Post
    Rune of power, invocation, sniper training. Three things I could think of off the top of my head, though since the last time I touched survival was in Wrath for about 20 seconds to just play with explosive shot, I don't know if sniper training is still in the game.
    Invocation makes Mage movement surpricingly free, you only need to be put once every 40 secs for 5 seconds and you can stroll around for the rest..

  20. #20
    Good for pvp.
    Very bad for pve. Stand while casting requirement adds additional complexity to pve and makes pve more skill-dependant. For example fighting normal monsters will turn into never-ending backpedal kiting, completely removing the necessity of cc.

    Also you should understand that after this requirement removal the major dps nerf will follow. At least 30% of dps in pvp and around 10% in pve.
    Also in pve some additional monster and boss mechanics will be added to make your life as hard as before. In pvp melee classes will be given even more mobility and ways to interrupt your casting and a lot of your instant cast spells will be turned into casted spells.

    Overall, I think that this change can be good for pvp. It will make casters life harder(after all nerfs and spell changes), thus increasing the overall enjoyability of playing the caster class. As of pve, this change is not acceptable.
    Considering that wow is pve oriented game (unlike gw for example), such change would never happen.
    Last edited by traen; 2013-01-01 at 09:43 PM.

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