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  1. #1

    [Resto] regrowth vs healing touch for nature's swiftness

    Crit is one of our less desirable stats hovering 10-20% buffed unbuffed after reforging gemming and the like.

    Healing touch is 18460-21800 spellpower 186%
    Regrowth is 9813-10954 spellpower 95.8% on the direct heal 7.3% spellpower and 2361 on the Hot

    using the glyph of regrowth we have a guranteed crit but we lose the hot portion.

    In the end after adding your spellpower a glyphed regrowth with nature's swiftness will heal for more than using healing touch except if you get a crit from using healing touch.

    using 19997 as example for spellpower


    spell bottom heal top heal spell power of spell heal with spellpower swiftness low crit low swiftness high crit high
    Healing touch 18460 21800 1.86 37194.42 83481.63 166963.26 88491.63 176983.26
    Regrowth 9813 10954 0.958 19157.13 43455.19 86910.38 45166.689 90333.38


    3k difference not that much at that spell level and big difference if healing touch crits

    using bis increases spellpower to 31139 and even then the difference is only 4k so it seems that best choiice is to keep using healing touch just in case
    we get that juici crit or shall we forget about the odd NS+HT Crit chance for the more consistent and higher NS+regrowth?

    (anyone knows what tags can be used to give format? table doesn't seem to be working for me)

  2. #2
    I've never, ever heard of anyone using NS on Regrowth. Use NS/HT.

  3. #3
    The Patient Roscoe's Avatar
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    18787 sp, no Regrowth glyph, 8.53% crit.

    NS: Regrowth - 102k crit. (has a decent HoT too)
    NS: HT - 99k non-crit.

    I don't see why it would be more beneficial to use NS:HT.
    Last edited by Roscoe; 2012-12-31 at 05:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Agreed one could say that in case HT does crit (<20% chance) it would heal for more but then again how much of it would be wasted overhealing.....

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Soullord View Post
    Agreed one could say that in case HT does crit (<20% chance) it would heal for more but then again how much of it would be wasted overhealing.....
    Considering that the best time to use it is when you tank spikes low, no it wont be overhealing as a low health tank has plenty of room to take a NS+HT crit. NS+HT is about the only time HT is worth using atm anyhow.

    Besides go do Tsulong and enjoy those 1 million+ NS+HT crits.. you wont get that with RG :P

  6. #6
    its true ull get a bigger heal with healing touch if it crits.. however ur goin to get a bigger living seed from regrowth crit....

    both have good and bad points, use wotever u feel is better

  7. #7
    I use Regrowth with every NS, paired with the Regrowth glyph of course. The 100% chance to crit makes it a more reliable choice, since we also have to take into account the living seed bonus. A crit from HT would be better, but with a sub-20% chance for me it just seems clear to use Regrowth instead.

  8. #8
    Blademaster Juvenate's Avatar
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    I normally pair NS with Healing Touch. Regrowth will always crit with the glyph and it leaves a decent Living Seed (about 30k) on the target. Healing Touch heals for about the same when it doesn't Crit, but it won't leave a LS. The catch is that when HT DOES Crit it crits BIG (about 225-250k) and leaves a very large LS on the target.

    The trade-off for using Healing Touch is giving up a 30k LS (which is kind of "meh" for every minute). Healing Touch still provides a good upfront heal and the Crit chance is very good for single target burst. I also wouldn't worry about overhealing with Crit since you shouldn't be using NS on anyone below 50% health anyway.

  9. #9
    The fact that living seed only procs on some damage means it's actually worse on average to use RG with HT, especially if it's not a tank. I use HT and it's worked well for me so far. I also happen to have a bunch of crit I can't get rid of, so I'm raiding with around 18% crit buffed, double that of a properly geared druid (zero crit rating if possible). This makes HT crits reliable enough to offset the guaranteed seed from RG and the very slightly higher average heal.

  10. #10
    Is there a crit modifier on NS+HT, it just feels like I crit more than my crit chance with this combo, I am aware that random my just be random.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Migraine View Post
    Is there a crit modifier on NS+HT, it just feels like I crit more than my crit chance with this combo, I am aware that random my just be random.
    Nope, no crit modifier, its just RNG, enjoy it while it lasts

    Looking at my last few logs - where i have about 18-19% crit raid buffed, NS+HT crit happened 12%, 17%, 18%, 24%. so yeah, RNG, particularly on a small number of casts can vary a lot.

  12. #12
    I had considered and then totally forgot about living seed on my calculations Ideally you are casting NS on a low health tank so there's a good chance you'll get to the living seed heal used.

    so its more like

    healing touch 88,491.63
    Glyphed Regrowth 90,333.38 + Living seed 27,099 = 117,432
    Crit Healing touch 176,983.26 + Living seed 53094 = 230,077

    glyphed regrowth heals for 25% more than non crit healing touch on nature's swiftness
    on average it seems to me that it would be better to use regrowth
    Last edited by Soullord; 2013-01-02 at 03:14 PM. Reason: added bolds

  13. #13
    Soullord, table does work. Formatting is key to getting it working, though.

    using 19997 as example for spellpower

    spell bottom heal top heal sp of spell heal with sp swiftness low crit low swiftness high crit high
    Healing touch 18460 21800 1.86 37194.42 83481.63 166963.26 88491.63 176983.26
    Regrowth 9813 10954 0.958 19157.13 43455.19 86910.38 45166.689 90333.38


    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 10:59 PM ----------

    Also, assuming a 20% crit chance, your average heal from NS+HT, based on the numbers from your last post would be:

    88,491.63*.8+230,077*.2 = 116808.7

    And as you pointed out, the healing from NS+glyphed RG = 117,432. Notice that on average, both heal for the same (assuming a 20% crit rating - even if you don't have 20% you're still pretty much guaranteed at least 15% from int+raid buff, putting the average healing of NS+HT at 109,729.4). Even then it's still only slightly worse than NS+RG. Really, the difference between the two options is a guaranteed 117k, or a fluctuating between low to high heal amount that averages to about 117k.
    Last edited by Dendrek; 2013-01-03 at 01:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  14. #14
    I Use HT because the time it takes to cast NS on the GCD and then Regrowth, you could pretty much have just cast regrowth and healed for almost as much. Might as well risk it on the bigger heal.

  15. #15
    NS doesn't trigger a GCD. If you're using a cast-sequence macro, you can hit it twice as quickly as you're able and you'll get the heal that quickly. If you're using a double cast macro (eg. /cast Nature's Swiftness /cast Healing Touch) it will cast both instantly, assuming you're not running — if you are running, you'll need to hit the button twice because even after so many years, Blizz still hasn't fixed that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Soullord, table does work. Formatting is key to getting it working, though.

    using 19997 as example for spellpower

    spell bottom heal top heal sp of spell heal with sp swiftness low crit low swiftness high crit high
    Healing touch 18460 21800 1.86 37194.42 83481.63 166963.26 88491.63 176983.26
    Regrowth 9813 10954 0.958 19157.13 43455.19 86910.38 45166.689 90333.38


    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 10:59 PM ----------

    Also, assuming a 20% crit chance, your average heal from NS+HT, based on the numbers from your last post would be:

    88,491.63*.8+230,077*.2 = 116808.7

    And as you pointed out, the healing from NS+glyphed RG = 117,432. Notice that on average, both heal for the same (assuming a 20% crit rating - even if you don't have 20% you're still pretty much guaranteed at least 15% from int+raid buff, putting the average healing of NS+HT at 109,729.4). Even then it's still only slightly worse than NS+RG. Really, the difference between the two options is a guaranteed 117k, or a fluctuating between low to high heal amount that averages to about 117k.

    also with a guranteed crit from regrowth you have to add the living seed heal 117,432 so baseline you'll have more guaranteed heals

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 09:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricksterjim View Post
    I Use HT because the time it takes to cast NS on the GCD and then Regrowth, you could pretty much have just cast regrowth and healed for almost as much. Might as well risk it on the bigger heal.
    make a macro and it will be just 1 keypress

    #showtooltip Nature's Swiftness
    /cast Nature's Swiftness
    /cast Regrowth

  17. #17
    You can only add the living seed if you know your target will be taking a physical hit within the buff time. Basically any non-tank will typically not proc this.

  18. #18
    but a tank surely will

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Soullord View Post
    also with a guranteed crit from regrowth you have to add the living seed heal 117,432 so baseline you'll have more guaranteed heals

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 09:48 AM ----------



    make a macro and it will be just 1 keypress

    #showtooltip Nature's Swiftness
    /cast Nature's Swiftness
    /cast Regrowth
    Perhaps you didn't fully read through what I said, but I did include the Living Seed heal. And I stand by my argument: both heals are nearly equal on average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  20. #20
    I'm personally using it with Regrowth because of the guaranteed extra healing from living seed etc. It's less of a gamble than hoping for HT crit (even though the initial healing is about the same even when HT doesn't crit).

    I actually don't use HT at all any more. Regrowth costs the same amount of mana, is faster and heals for the same (actually more!). In non-critical situations a rejuvenation will do a lot more HPM.
    Last edited by achareat; 2013-01-04 at 12:37 AM.
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