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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    This would be a very nice build for you budget

    If it's a game you don't think you'd play often, just install it to the mechanical drive. Like me, I play DOTA2 a lot so it's on my SSD (128GB) but I have LOL installed also but rarely play it except when I do in-house games with friends, so it's on my mechanical drive. I don't play it nearly enough to justify it on the SSD and I don't mind the extra time it takes to load because I don't play it much
    Aren't DOTA games (so DOTA2, LoL, HoN) pointless to have on an SSD because the round only starts when all the players are ready, and most players appear to be playing on a toaster?
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  2. #22
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Wrong; most people are playing on bamboo computers, not toasters. But, I don't play many games at once (DOTA2, D3, CS:GO right now) so it launching quickly is just a convenience and I don't need to worry about keeping that space free, it was just giving an example of how I don't have all my programs installed on my SSD and how OP shouldn't need to worry about filling up a 256GB SSD. Like you said, games like DOTA2 where, in the end, it depends on the slowest loader really don't need to be on the SSD but something like WOW which will constantly help loading textures would benefit from being on the SSD
    Last edited by llDemonll; 2013-01-03 at 06:20 PM.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by shroudster View Post
    you seem on the right track.
    1, well non LP can work once you can fit it underneath that cooler but it will never be accesable again xD (and due to possible risk of contact it is usually better to avoid)
    2,tricky to find out likely but do share the results if you find any? (still that WD green will likely suffice and else perhaps toss in a raid 0 setup for it?)
    3, just go for 8 you won't regret it after a week. (for desktop the shell to make it look/work like w7 does seem mandatory, where as i can work without it easy on my laptop)
    4, don't forget a 670 can usually be oc'ed to perform similar to a standard/lightly oc'ed 680. also SLI support has improved greatly the last few years.

    bonus ssd, not sure what you want to store on that ssd but don't install all games on it usually just the most played ones(wow?) and dump the rest on another hdd (wd black for example)
    Overclocking the gpu won't give him more CUDA cores though. Single card solution GTX680 has the most CUDA cores. GTX670 would suffice though, but a GTX680 will be better.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    Overclocking the gpu won't give him more CUDA cores though. Single card solution GTX680 has the most CUDA cores. GTX670 would suffice though, but a GTX680 will be better.
    Doesn't a 580 have even more CUDA cores than a 680? If you want to do CUDA processing.
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  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans shroudster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Doesn't a 580 have even more CUDA cores than a 680? If you want to do CUDA processing.
    true , however a 670 i likely plenty for the OP already.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by shroudster View Post
    2,tricky to find out likely but do share the results if you find any? (still that WD green will likely suffice and else perhaps toss in a raid 0 setup for it?)
    4, don't forget a 670 can usually be oc'ed to perform similar to a standard/lightly oc'ed 680. also SLI support has improved greatly the last few years.

    bonus ssd, not sure what you want to store on that ssd but don't install all games on it usually just the most played ones(wow?) and dump the rest on another hdd (wd black for example)
    I did some digging, but unfortunately I didn't find much concrete data. Recording games at 5760x1080 is pretty rare, afterall. Having said that, I've found a couple things:

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    So I just recorded 1680x1050 29.97 fps... for 10:22 minutes.

    A whopping 21.30 GB. So how much bigger would a 1920x1080 29.97 be? Anyone care to go play WoW for 10 minutes and record at those settings? (My monitor's native resolution is 1680x1050, can't do 1080p)
    Doing some basic arithmatic:
    1680x1050 @29.97 FPS = 33.49 mb/sec
    1680x1050 @30.00 FPS = 33.52 mb/sec
    1920x1080 @30.00 FPS = 39.40 mb/sec
    5760x1080 @30.00 FPS = 118.21 mb/sec

    No idea if DeltrusDisc was recording sound or not, so it might be closer to ~124.12 mb/sec with an extra 5% fudge factor. If a WD Green can handle it, it'd be pretty close to its upper limit. (Unless FRAPs has refined its codec since that post was made.)

    I found another interesting post on a different forum. He has specs similar to what I'm looking at (except with a 690 and Caiviar Black as a target) and was able to record BF3 at 40 fps. It also seems that FRAPs doesn't play nice with SLI. (Note the support response at the bottom about the Caviar Green.)

    I was kinda skeptical of SLI before, and that makes me less inclined to use it. How much overclocking were your thinking of for a 670 vs a 680 with your above statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    Wrong; most people are playing on bamboo computers, not toasters. But, I don't play many games at once (DOTA2, D3, CS:GO right now) so it launching quickly is just a convenience and I don't need to worry about keeping that space free, it was just giving an example of how I don't have all my programs installed on my SSD and how OP shouldn't need to worry about filling up a 256GB SSD. Like you said, games like DOTA2 where, in the end, it depends on the slowest loader really don't need to be on the SSD but something like WOW which will constantly help loading textures would benefit from being on the SSD
    Ah, you're thinking along the same lines I was, afterall. I got the impression that you were advocating using the hdd as storage only when you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll View Post
    Get a 256GB SSD, install all program and games on it (and windows, of course)

    Get a large (think 2TB) drive that's 7200RPM for anything else. If you want, run two and run them in RAID1 for redundancy. If you really have a lot of stuff, get a 2TB for all your documents and such, and a 3TB drive for fraps and don't run RAID
    --edit--

    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Amazon)
    Oh heck, since overclocking has come up several times, how desirable / necessary is water cooling? Call me a wimp, but the idea of liquid in the case makes me quite nervous.
    Last edited by Alindra; 2013-01-04 at 03:12 AM.

  7. #27
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    Ah, you're thinking along the same lines I was, afterall. I got the impression that you were advocating using the hdd as storage only when you said:
    well, I was advocating the HDD for just storage, but it all depends on how much stuff you have installed at any point. there's no reason for someone like me, who doesn't have a ton of games/programs installed at once, to install anything on a HDD when I would just have unused SSD space sitting around, but if it's someone like OP who thinks that he will fill up more than a 256GB drive, then installing certain programs on the HDD would obviously be beneficial
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  8. #28
    Immortal Notarget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    I
    Oh heck, since overclocking has come up several times, how desirable / necessary is water cooling? Call me a wimp, but the idea of liquid in the case makes me quite nervous.
    There really isn't anything to worry about but if you want air and won't be overclocking that much then this will be fine:

    CPU Cooler: Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 56.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Amazon)
    Total: $19.99
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-04 00:17 EST-0500)

    Or a step up from that one:

    CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-C14 CPU Cooler ($72.29 @ Amazon)
    Total: $72.29
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-04 00:18 EST-0500)
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by shroudster View Post
    2,tricky to find out likely but do share the results if you find any? (still that WD green will likely suffice and else perhaps toss in a raid 0 setup for it?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    Doing some basic arithmatic:
    1680x1050 @29.97 FPS = 33.49 mb/sec
    1680x1050 @30.00 FPS = 33.52 mb/sec
    1920x1080 @30.00 FPS = 39.40 mb/sec
    5760x1080 @30.00 FPS = 118.21 mb/sec

    No idea if DeltrusDisc was recording sound or not, so it might be closer to ~124.12 mb/sec with an extra 5% fudge factor. If a WD Green can handle it, it'd be pretty close to its upper limit. (Unless FRAPs has refined its codec since that post was made.)
    Today as I was doing more research on hdds to use for FRAPs I stumbled across some much better information on FRAPs performance:

    * June 2012 - Highest Expected Fraps Data Rates
    Short version:
    1080 @30fps == 60 mb/sec (8bit RGB), 118 (16bit RGB)
    5760 @30fps == 178 mb/sec (8bit RGB), 356 (16bit RGB)
    Actual bitrate varies from game to game, but 5760 is pretty much RAID territory.

    * Variance in bitrate between game titles while recording
    Explanation of the above numbers, also has some sample bitrates (1080p):

    Summary Bitrates:
    Battlefield 3 - 294 Mbps (36.75 MB/sec)
    Diablo 3 - 272 Mbps (34 MB/sec)
    Minecraft - 210 Mbps (26.25 MB/sec)
    Rift - 422 Mbps (52.75 MB/sec)
    Terraria - 153 Mbps (19.125 MB/sec)
    The Witcher 2 - 433 Mbps (54.125 MB/sec)
    * RAMDisk & FRAPs (four threads with the RAMDisk tag)
    It seems you can turn a portion of your RAM into a mini harddrive, allowing for very quick recording which can then be copied off to an hdd. Two catches:
    1) This requires a lot of RAM.
    2) It sounds like FRAPs locks all files until recording is halted. Even with a macro or such, toggling recording on/off will drop 1-2 frames. Bummer.

    ---------------------
    More thoughts on HDDs/RAID:

    If I decide to pursue capturing 5760x1080 @30 FPS, I'll pretty much need to a RAID. I know what RAID is and how the different levels work conceptually, but my practical experience is non-existant.

    It seems that a lot of consumer grade hdds (such as the WD "colored drives", blue/green/black?) have a very high TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) which can cause them to drop from RAIDs. Additionally, I'm reading that the newer WD "colored drives" won't allow you disable the TLER.

    Does this sound about right, or is my research failing me?


    Thanks again for putting up with me, everyone. If I'm going to be spending this kind of money on the system, I'm going to be methodical in making sure I do it right. No reason to go off half-cocked. :P

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 09:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    There really isn't anything to worry about but if you want air and won't be overclocking that much then this will be fine:

    CPU Cooler: Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 56.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Amazon)
    Total: $19.99
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-04 00:17 EST-0500)

    Or a step up from that one:

    CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-C14 CPU Cooler ($72.29 @ Amazon)
    Total: $72.29
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-04 00:18 EST-0500)
    I haven't decided on overclocking (like RAID, I have no experience with it) - it may depend on performance once I get the system up and running, but I wouldn't be thinking of doing anything extreme. Still, you're confident these all in one systems are safe. Hmm, two curious things about the Corsair H80i:

    1) It looks significantly louder than the air coolers (like the Noctua NH-C14), 37.68 dBA vs 19.6 dBA. Not what I expected!
    2) Corsair's Product page says "Hydro Series H80i comes pre-filled, and never needs refilling or priming," yet NewEgg's details say "Large-diameter, low permeability tubing ensures long life and improves flexibility for an easier installation."
    I can't help but wonder how long the liquid really lasts.

    (Sorry for being obnoxiously inquisitive - I can't help taking a close look at technology I'm unfamiliar with. I've been sifting through this stuff for 3-4 hours already, tonight.)

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans shroudster's Avatar
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    just me or would frapsing eye-finity setup be inpractical aswell for whomever wants to watch it? (also storage wise you'd need something like a NAS to accomodate if you want to keep any files xD)
    is livestreaming perhaps an option? (likely lacks the bandwidth for such resolution/data?)

    as for cooling there are some new coolers on the block from nztx (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6530/c...zxt-compared/7) which are very quiet and perform suberb so far. (also in regards to the liquid i think you only lose a very little bit of cooling potential each year or something allong those lines, no refills needed for sure)

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by shroudster View Post
    just me or would frapsing eye-finity setup be inpractical aswell for whomever wants to watch it? (also storage wise you'd need something like a NAS to accomodate if you want to keep any files xD)
    is livestreaming perhaps an option? (likely lacks the bandwidth for such resolution/data?)
    You know, I did consider those points! The benefit of FRAPsing in eyefinity would be:
    * No need to hassle changing surround settings / resolution / UI if I want to FRAPs.
    * The ability to do fun stuff while editing.
    * It's always better to have more data and process it later than not to have enough. (ie: I could crop out just the center monitor from a movie and delete the rest if I really wanted. Or produce a surround and standard variants.)

    I'm still noodling with the idea. Perhaps using a RAID0 of WD Red 2TBs (benchmark 1, benchmark 2) They're still 5,400 RPM drives, but designed for NAS / RAID scenarios.

    Yeah, livestream isn't really an option atm. Besides, I'm not sure I'd be as entertaining to watch realtime. Besides, some of my video editing interest is also in recording memories for my own use - think screenshots on a grander scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by shroudster View Post
    as for cooling there are some new coolers on the block from nztx (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6530/c...zxt-compared/7) which are very quiet and perform suberb so far. (also in regards to the liquid i think you only lose a very little bit of cooling potential each year or something allong those lines, no refills needed for sure)
    Ahhh, in fact, I did read that as it was linked from this thread. It gives me some more to think about.


    Working build:
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

    CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
    CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($79.98 @ Outlet PC)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($180.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($159.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
    Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($119.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
    Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
    Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 680 2GB Video Card ($457.86 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($129.99 @ Newegg)
    Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($55.98 @ NCIX US)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($87.99 @ NCIX US)
    Total: $1812.72
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-05 15:21 EST-0500)

    ToDo:
    * Bigger SDD?
    * Keep the RAID0 FRAPs drive?
    * Water cooling?
    * Case

    Yeah, I'll probably blow the budget a little if I keep the FRAPs RAID0.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 09:40 PM ----------

    Tentative Build:
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

    CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
    CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($107.39 @ Amazon)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($180.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($159.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
    Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($212.95 @ Mac Connection)
    Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
    Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
    Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 680 2GB Video Card ($457.86 @ Newegg)
    Case: Cooler Master Storm Stryker (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($144.98 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($129.99 @ Newegg)
    Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($55.98 @ NCIX US)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($87.99 @ NCIX US)
    Total: $2078.07
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-06 00:35 EST-0500)

    I think I'm going to sleep on it.
    Last edited by Alindra; 2013-01-06 at 05:40 AM.

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