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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Ender's Game itself is excellent. A lot of the reason it seems kind of cliche these days is because the major strides it made were made decades ago, and people have followed in those footsteps extensively. Same reason why shaky-cam was effective for the Blair Witch Project, but now everyone and their dog does "found footage" stuff and it's getting stupid (still some good iterations, like Chronicle, but mostly it's dumb).

    Card himself is getting crazy (well, he passed the line a while back), but he wasn't always this nutbar. It's something he's become as he's gotten older. He used to be relatively liberal, but now he uses "liberal" as if it were the same as "nazi" (see his book Empire, for instance).

    Also; the Xenocide saga that follows from Ender's Game aren't true sequels. They take place in the same timeline, and Ender's the main character (as an adult), but the theme and purpose of it is totally different from Ender's Game, and Card knew that when he wrote them. It's kind of like comparing LotR to The Hobbit or The Silmarillion; they're all related, but one's a children's book, the other's an epic fantasy intended for adult readers, and the third is essentially a mythology and history book.


    Ender's Game, though, holds its place for a reason.
    It's not that I think the material if cliche. It's not that i think the material is in some way crap. The story was original, and entertaining. What it wasn't however, was incredibly deep in my mind. It was a good story with some good ideas, but in the end it was fairly light and shallow. Yes, it was a good story, and being as accessible as it is, it's a good intro into the genre. It is Ender's Game is really NOT on the level of Heinlein, or Phillip K. Dick, or Clarke, or Asimov, or insert any of the sci fi greats. All of these people Orsen Scott Card is often ranked ABOVE. I don't think he is worthy of that. At all.

    The difference between Xenocide and the Hobbit is the Hobbit stands on it's own.

    Keep in mind this is all subjective. I Like Ender's game. I really do. I just recognize it aint no Dune, Stranger in a Strange Land, or Ringworld.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  2. #62
    Bloodsail Admiral Rendia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poser765 View Post
    It's not that I think the material if cliche. It's not that i think the material is in some way crap. The story was original, and entertaining. What it wasn't however, was incredibly deep in my mind. It was a good story with some good ideas, but in the end it was fairly light and shallow. Yes, it was a good story, and being as accessible as it is, it's a good intro into the genre. It is Ender's Game is really NOT on the level of Heinlein, or Phillip K. Dick, or Clarke, or Asimov, or insert any of the sci fi greats. All of these people Orsen Scott Card is often ranked ABOVE. I don't think he is worthy of that. At all.

    The difference between Xenocide and the Hobbit is the Hobbit stands on it's own.

    Keep in mind this is all subjective. I Like Ender's game. I really do. I just recognize it aint no Dune, Stranger in a Strange Land, or Ringworld.
    You're right in the fact that Xenocide doesn't stand on it's own. That is actually the reason he re-wrote Ender's Game from the short story it was. Xenocide WAS the story he was trying to tell, and Ender's Game was just a means to an end (no pun intended).

    I find that Card is a great writer. He just isn't action packed. He mostly writes philosophical, political, and religious stuff in the sci-fi setting. It just isn't everyone's cup of tea is all.

    I put him up with Heinlein and Asimov as one of the greats.
    "There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you." -Mazer Rackham - Ender's Game Orson Scott Card

  3. #63
    1. Joel Shepherd
    2. Scott Lynch
    3. Jim Butcher
    4. Kristen Britain
    5. George R. R. Martin
    6. Neil Gaiman
    7. Terry Pratchett
    8. Tolkien
    9. Ilona Andrews
    10. Patricia Briggs

    These are my favorite fantasy authors. I won't go into detail on all of them but I will say that Joel Shepherd does not get enough love. Has anyone here read his series A Trial of Blood and Steel?

  4. #64
    Dreadlord Nykolas's Avatar
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    OMG! J.K Rowling is the bees knees, i grew up with harry potter, I queued for midnight releases, i cried at deaths, i was inspired to try creative writing because of her!.
    There was a lot of mixed reviews for her first "Adult book" but to be honest, i agree that "The Casual Vacancy" was not her best work. it felt very confused, but i definitely cried at the ending, And i established a connection with the main characters, so it can't be all that bad? (or i am just overly emotional).

    I love her writing style, but she needs to stop using "and" so much.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:11 AM ----------

    Harry potter studio tour next month! (films are super shit imo, i hate david yates with a passion)

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    OMG! J.K Rowling is the bees knees, i grew up with harry potter, I queued for midnight releases, i cried at deaths, i was inspired to try creative writing because of her!.
    There was a lot of mixed reviews for her first "Adult book" but to be honest, i agree that "The Casual Vacancy" was not her best work. it felt very confused, but i definitely cried at the ending, And i established a connection with the main characters, so it can't be all that bad? (or i am just overly emotional).

    I love her writing style, but she needs to stop using "and" so much.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:11 AM ----------

    Harry potter studio tour next month! (films are super shit imo, i hate david yates with a passion)
    I suggest you try reading some real books, not the crap that is J.K. Rowling.

    There are quite a few exceptional authors listed in this thread that make Rowling look like the mediocre author she is. Try some of them. Pratchett and Butcher right generally shorter novels that are easy to get into and don't take long to finish, and yet both are light-years ahead of Rowling as far as writing skill and story development go.

  6. #66
    Rowling may not be the best fantasy author, but she is top notch in the children's fantasy area, and the fact she single handedly got hundreds of millions of kids buzzed about reading for almost a decade should earn her anyone's respect. Its not like she's R.L. Stine...

  7. #67
    Dreadlord Nykolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I suggest you try reading some real books, not the crap that is J.K. Rowling.

    There are quite a few exceptional authors listed in this thread that make Rowling look like the mediocre author she is. Try some of them. Pratchett and Butcher right generally shorter novels that are easy to get into and don't take long to finish, and yet both are light-years ahead of Rowling as far as writing skill and story development go.
    I grew up with it, i grew with the characters, i made long standing connections with them. sorry for being biased

    No honorable mention for Stephanie Meyer, Worst writer of all time? (got chronic headaches and nosebleeds reading the second one)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:30 AM ----------

    I remember turning 11 and waiting for my letter from Hogwarts

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    I grew up with it, i grew with the characters, i made long standing connections with them. sorry for being biased

    No honorable mention for Stephanie Meyer, Worst writer of all time? (got chronic headaches and nosebleeds reading the second one)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:30 AM ----------

    I remember turning 11 and waiting for my letter from Hogwarts
    And that is fine and all, but you didn't list your other 9 favorite authors and it seems like you have read very little speculative fiction if you honestly think Rowling is a good author.

    That said, I have a special place for the early D'rzzt Novels by Salvatore and Enders Game by OSC, because that is what I grew up reading, but I didn't list either of them as they certainly aren't the best the genre has to offer.

  9. #69
    Dreadlord Nykolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And that is fine and all, but you didn't list your other 9 favorite authors and it seems like you have read very little speculative fiction if you honestly think Rowling is a good author.

    That said, I have a special place for the early D'rzzt Novels by Salvatore and Enders Game by OSC, because that is what I grew up reading, but I didn't list either of them as they certainly aren't the best the genre has to offer.
    I read loads of stuff, but i have a really bad memory, i read a lord of the rings book, and i hated it with a passion. Reading the woman in black at the moment, just finished the hunger games trilogy. (its terrible) cant remember who wrote poison study? (also terrible) i do read a lot but i can never remember what it's called or the author, my sister tends to be better, so sometimes i ring her up and im like "remember that book i read and the king was a Woman?" and she will tell me what i read.(we both read a lot) I am seriously getting in to true crime at the moment.

    My first ever book was either Peter Pan or Charlie and the chocolate factory? i cant remember. I was never really in to books about dragons and things until i got a little bit older.

    Having a go at writing fantasy myself at the moment, i am 456 pages in so far, its about where we go when we die and portals to different worlds, some religion, some lesbianism, and some ghost action going on. Its very strange to be honest. i Wrote a short story before called "Hostel Boy" Its about a boy who is kicked out of home, lives in a hostel, develops a mental illness, Unknowingly commits murder because his imaginary neighbor kills someone, his imaginary neighbor then kills him but its technically suicide. ( i am a little bit messed up)

  10. #70
    I find the approach of the OP interesting; it is a combination of personally being 'gripped' by an author, and the perceived literary sense. But I am a bit baffled by the vehemence of some responses; I think literary sense can be discussed in a limited way, but being personally gripped, not. For example, I once was so gripped by David Eddings and kept buying his books - yet his writing style never did anything to me, and has put me off grabbing his books again for years.

    The author I miss so far in this discussion is Lois McMaster Bujold. I enjoyed the majority of her books on 'grippingness', but also enjoy her writing style more and more. The latest I read of her, all 4 parts of The Sharing Knife, regularly had me laughing out loud due to the conciseness of described situations and little word plays. Now, if she is a good writer or whether my appreciation shows me for the simple soul I am I leave up to others .

    I much like the feeling of archaism in Tolkiens books, and the fun in Pratchets style. But otherwise I am more of a theme-reader than that I can recognise good writing - I mostly categorise my books in 'it grabs me' or not, with a bias to longer stories for immersion value.

    Orson Scott Card is imo a very odd figure. Enders Game and Speaker for the Death still can grab me, and some of the themes in his other books (the book about Bean, Songmaster, and parts of the first books of Alvin) too. Yet overall he feels so terribly moralistic that I cant stand his work much.

    I found the first book of Potter enormously gripping. But after that the series started to hurt seriously from what I call for myself 'famous author illness'; it feels like editors no longer dare to cut a book down to concise storylines once the series gets popular. Later books in that series are way too thick.

    Then some other authors that work well for me - Jack Vance for his style of mixing fantasy and science fiction. Brin for the grandness of the Uplift theme. Guy Gavriel Kay for his little jewels, even though I find the dramatic aspects over the top. Mercedes Lackey for her storytelling power. And Herbert for the grandness of his Dune theme, in a writing style that Herbert & Anderson never really pull off.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    I read loads of stuff, but i have a really bad memory, i read a lord of the rings book, and i hated it with a passion. Reading the woman in black at the moment, just finished the hunger games trilogy. (its terrible) cant remember who wrote poison study? (also terrible) i do read a lot but i can never remember what it's called or the author, my sister tends to be better, so sometimes i ring her up and im like "remember that book i read and the king was a Woman?" and she will tell me what i read.(we both read a lot) I am seriously getting in to true crime at the moment.

    My first ever book was either Peter Pan or Charlie and the chocolate factory? i cant remember. I was never really in to books about dragons and things until i got a little bit older.

    Having a go at writing fantasy myself at the moment, i am 456 pages in so far, its about where we go when we die and portals to different worlds, some religion, some lesbianism, and some ghost action going on. Its very strange to be honest. i Wrote a short story before called "Hostel Boy" Its about a boy who is kicked out of home, lives in a hostel, develops a mental illness, Unknowingly commits murder because his imaginary neighbor kills someone, his imaginary neighbor then kills him but its technically suicide. ( i am a little bit messed up)
    Sounds like you watched fight club.

  12. #72
    Dreadlord Nykolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Sounds like you watched fight club.
    I have never seen fight club?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 05:06 AM ----------

    I wrote Hostel boy when i was 13, as an English project. I actually think its still on my usb stick! im gonna go look

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 05:10 AM ----------

    Oh the memories, i just found it on my old Doctor Who Usb

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    Sounds really fun, indeed. Do you live in a movie?
    lol. Jimmy would make a great movie character!

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer Kerath's Avatar
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    You know, I see a lot of people wax poetic about Steven Erikson, but I honestly could not get through his first book. It was just a complete clusterfuck.
    Does his writing style improve so significantly that it's really worth pushing through and getting to the following books?
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  15. #75
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    His writing style is completly different even in his second book, Deadhouse Gates.
    Guardens of the Moon is A LOT weaker. I believe that's partly because it was first set as a movie script that was later redone.
    It also is rather rough in how it just throws you into the deep end and hope you'll manage to find and swim with the current. Something I personally loved yet know many who hate.
    What also is to remember they haven't suffered through as lenthy an editing process as much other work, so they are a bit more "raw" in that.

    So, in essence it's the oposite of Jordan whom starts Strong yet quite quickly grows complacent.

  16. #76
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And that is fine and all, but you didn't list your other 9 favorite authors and it seems like you have read very little speculative fiction if you honestly think Rowling is a good author.

    That said, I have a special place for the early D'rzzt Novels by Salvatore and Enders Game by OSC, because that is what I grew up reading, but I didn't list either of them as they certainly aren't the best the genre has to offer.
    I think that Salvatore is at the head of the RPG fantasy subgenre, but that subgenre is something I think I've grown out of overall as my English improved. It's hard to go back to those kinds of books after going into more detailed and refined pieces of literature.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  17. #77
    Anyone else here heard of Steph Swainston?

  18. #78
    The Lightbringer Kerath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Anyone else here heard of Steph Swainston?
    Nope, any good?
    I've had a LOT of stuff added to my 'to-read' list the last few months thanks to this forum

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 12:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    His writing style is completly different even in his second book, Deadhouse Gates.
    Guardens of the Moon is A LOT weaker. I believe that's partly because it was first set as a movie script that was later redone.
    It also is rather rough in how it just throws you into the deep end and hope you'll manage to find and swim with the current. Something I personally loved yet know many who hate.
    What also is to remember they haven't suffered through as lenthy an editing process as much other work, so they are a bit more "raw" in that.

    So, in essence it's the oposite of Jordan whom starts Strong yet quite quickly grows complacent.
    Ok, thanks - I may try to have another crack at gardens of the moon when I'm in the right mood. It's sitting on my bookshelf at the moment, taunting me.
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerath View Post
    Nope, any good?
    I've had a LOT of stuff added to my 'to-read' list the last few months thanks to this forum
    I absolutely love her Castle series. I can't really put my finger on what appeals to me, but I find the world fascinating. But she seems to be very little known... and she quit full time writing to be a teacher =/

  20. #80
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    This thread has a disturbing lack of Raymond E. Feist. Or did until Shamanic included a list, at least lol

    I don't honestly think I could make a list of my top 10. There are just too many good ones!

    Rarely updated...

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