1. #1

    [Opinion] The Difference Between "Casual" and "Heroic" Players

    To start, this is not a "raider v.s. casual" flame war. I just want to point out some things.

    I posted this after getting some replies in another thread (about removing 1 feature in WoW). Having been on both sides of this coin, I feel the need to share my views on the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papasito View Post
    It would be nice to have content for people who actually have skill, with gear of it's own design so that you can (for once) have something that shows you are not an LFR untalented welfare epic hack...

    Back in Vanilla if you had oldschool Naxx gear, it meant your guild actually had some skills. Your gear proved you could defeat hard content.
    Now everyone and their brother has look-alike welfare epics.

    Let's build a gap between scrubs and achievers.
    There is; They're challenge modes, give great looking gear (provided you can get all 9 in gold), and a sweet mount. Blizzard is not nerfing these at all, either

    Same with certain titles (Very few "Delver of the Vaults" on my server), among other things (Heroic weapon/armor models having different colors, etc). Besides, who cares if they can get it now; I got my T12H back when it was current content and still use it for transmog. Does it lessen my achievement? Not in the slightest. It's old content no one cares about anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    The "skills" of being able to play WoW 20 hours a day, 7 days a week?
    On the other side of the coin, this is part of why some heroic raiders feel angry at some players. Not all heroic raiders are like this (usually only the very good, or very bad heroic raiders raid that much, and the good ones only as long as they're progressing).

    My previous guild raids 3 days a week, 3 hours a night and is top 50 for US 25 (and among the best in the world for their time/efficiency bracket). If that isn't "skill," it's certainly something.
    Point is, there are some heroic raiders who do raid that much, some during progression (I.E. Paragon, Method, Blood Legion) who stop after they're done, and some who are bad and still do it (I applaud them for effort, if not for their success). There are some that do not raid that much, hell half that amount, and are still very well progressed (My old guild, as mentioned in the example). On the same spectrum, there are guilds, such as the one I am currently in with RL friends, who raid casually and progress in normals and eventually heroics.

    On the flip side of this coin, there are the "casual" (I loath the term, but must use it since many will be confused otherwise) playerbase. They don't raid, but they progress their character individually (Be it with LFR/crafted gear, the Auction house, transmog, soloing things, pet battles, etc). In essence, they are just as "hardcore" at their given path as a heroic raider is at theirs; I know people who do pet battles all day, and are very good at them (I.E. the "heroic raider" of pet battles).

    Really, these generalizations disgust me. One does not need to raid or zerg challenge modes for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to get realm or world first. A player with LFR or crafted gear in no way diminishes your heroic gear, title, and mount (even if they got it an expansion late).

    Just tell me your thoughts on this subject.

  2. #2
    I don't believe there is a dichotomy between "casual" and "heroic". As you said, there are players that are "casual-heroic" that do heroic content on a casual time-frame. I would put them on perpendicular axes. The "casual" axis being time commitment and the "heroic" axis being content difficulty. There are people all over this plane.
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    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    A player with LFR or crafted gear in no way diminishes your heroic gear, title, and mount (even if they got it an expansion late).
    I didn't particularily disagree with anything in your post, except for this part which is blatantly absurd. These items are (in this context) prestige symbols, and their vaule is diminished, or even entirely eliminated, by others having access to them without having to go through what made them prestigious in the first place. Them also being changed from extremely rare items to extremely common items intensifies the effect.

    The only thing attached to these items that means anything now is the date of when they were aquired; the items themselves have essentially lost all their value as prestige items.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I don't believe there is a dichotomy between "casual" and "heroic". As you said, there are players that are "casual-heroic" that do heroic content on a casual time-frame. I would put them on perpendicular axes. The "casual" axis being time commitment and the "heroic" axis being content difficulty. There are people all over this plane.
    I agree with you there, but when I said "casuals," mostly I meant the part of the playerbase that people think of when the term "casual" is mentioned, those who don't raid and spend the majority of their time pet battling, rare hunting, things of that nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    I didn't particularily disagree with anything in your post, except for this part which is blatantly absurd. These items are (in this context) prestige symbols, and their vaule is diminished, or even entirely eliminated, by others having access to them without having to go through what made them prestigious in the first place. Them also being changed from extremely rare items to extremely common items intensifies the effect.

    The only thing attached to these items that means anything now is the date of when they were acquired; the items themselves have essentially lost all their value as prestige items.
    I'll admit; Some part of me agrees. I never finished my Shadowmourne due to time constraints, and it hurts to see someone get it after soloing half the instance for 6 months.

    Another part says that those people deserve (at least some small chance) at getting those same awesome items (which is Blizzard's mentality, I believe, with the changes to Ragnaros' and Deathwing's heroic mounts, along with those of Mimiron's head and Invincible).

    Take for instance the T12H set I mentioned earlier. It is still prestigious to me because I did it when it was difficult, so I'm that much more proud of having it, and I'm attached to the memories I had when obtaining the pieces. I still have a Haunted Memento passed on to me when my father quit the game (This item is prestigious not because I got it when it was hard (didn't play much back then), but because it's a rare, expensive item my father thought was worth passing on).

    I can agree with why some would be angry, but on the other side, I can see why those would want the item in question.

  5. #5
    About 20 iLvl

    The end.

  6. #6
    Casual has nothing to do with content. You can be a casual player and have heroic raids on farm, you just raid 2-3 nights a week for a few hours a night vs. raiding 5 hours a night for 5 nights a week. Plenty of casual players are accomplished. Many more "hardcore" players haven't much to show for their incredible expenditures of time. Casual raiders, even the ones doing extremely well, are able to exist because of the removal of time consuming, dull and pointless attunements which never reflected anything more than the amount of time you had to put into raiding. I think there's much animosity as a result from those people who don't think casuals should even be allowed inside a raid instance because they didn't waste countless hours of grinding attunements just to get in. In my opinion, guilds clearing content in 2-3 nights a week for a few hours a night are in a far higher league than those who throw their corpses at something 5 hours a night for 5 nights a week, even if their progression is even in terms of what's been cleared.

  7. #7
    I myself would love to raid casually (3-4 days a week) with some real good players. The problem is, that is so hard to find. To find a guild which raid casually and have good players is extremely rare. It is much easier to find good players among more hardcore guilds from my own experience.

    My previous guild raids 3 days a week, 3 hours a night and is top 50 for US 25 (and among the best in the world for their time/efficiency bracket). If that isn't "skill," it's certainly something.
    And about time/boss and all the efficiency talk, it is very different to kill a boss close to its release or later. Gear is generally better and more developed strategies are available for you to copy. And stop using "top US", it is just sad to see players say top 50 US instead of top 200 just to make themselves look better. It is not like the US is at some kind of disadvantage.

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