Jaina is an Alliance-aligned leader of a neutral faction (which has ties to both sides). That in itself is hypocritical - It's alright for one half of the faction (and its' leader) to support a group, but the other half of the faction can't support their allies' enemies? Granted, the enemy is Garrosh, but the action itself is still hypocritical.
To put it in real world terms, using a fictional scenario (open minds here, people):
The leader of the country is Russian. His country is evenly divided between Russian ancestry and Chinese ancestry. China and Russia are in a war, Russia discovers some big bad weapon, hides it to prevent China from getting it. The leaders' country is neutral, but the leader helps Russia anyways. After some Chinese-aligned citizens steal the weapon and give it to China, he flips his shit and basically commits mass genocide, killing out essentially half his country.
It's the same thing we have in WoW. The leader is supposed to be neutral; he himself breaks the neutrality first by helping and aligning himself with Russia. A small group (which the larger Chinese supporters have no knowledge about) takes the weapon, also breaking neutrality. The leader prosecutes the group, and the larger whole, because of this.
Even if the Chinese emperor (A.K.A. Garrosh) is a brutal tyrant hell-bent on world domination, the leader still is a hypocrite. I'm not saying Jaina was wrong for helping the Alliance (coming from a Horde player), but she still was: A.) A hypocrite for helping the Alliance and flipping her shit when Horde supporters did the same, and B.) a genocidal asshole. She never stopped and asked questions, she just locked or killed everyone. Imagine if you were a Sunreaver: No clue WTF is going on, you're all buddy-buddy with Jaina one day, the next she's throwing you in a prison and killing your family because of something radical terrorists supporting the faction you're supporting did something behind the hypocrite's (A.K.A. Jaina's) back.
"But the real thing about Draenor is that it's a very kind of savage place, it's kind of like Australia where 11/10 things will kill you, giants and poisonous plants and everything. I think it's going to be really cool." ~ Ray Cobo, WoW Senior Game Producer
So tell me, how far out did Jaina’s anti-teleportation spell extend? What is the effective radius? I mean, if you’re willing to extend this (still unsupported) spell beyond the city itself, where do you stop? Teldrassil? The water around Teldrassil? Darkshore? Ashenvale? There was no need for Jaina to go beyond the city in which the bell resided. Indeed, the Sunreavers’ location outside the city indicates they chose that location because they could get no closer to the bell with simple teleportation; otherwise, why not just open up a portal right next to the bell, snatch it, and be on your way? Why the need to stealth through the whole city? They already knew where the Divine Bell was (reference the Horde quest “Insertion”); the problem was penetrating the defensive magics and snagging it without getting caught.No one could teleport to Darnassus, therefore the Sunreaver(s) used Dalarani portals to enter inside Darnassus. You are acting like "outside Darnassus" is some neutral no-man's land without connection to the city itself. It's the World Tree of Teldrassil, the nation of the Night Elves.
The fact is, plain and simple, if Jaina hadn’t engaged in defending the Alliance against the Horde, the Sunreavers would not have had to counter her efforts. She got a taste of her own medicine and didn’t like it.The fact, again, plain simple, the Sunreaver(s) used Dalaran resources to enter on Darnassus for Horde's purposes, breaking the nation's trust.
---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 07:04 PM ----------
I really don’t think there’s anyone that believes this. She’s vehemently against the Horde and has absolutely no interest in seeing Garrosh have possession of yet another powerful artifact of war, especially after he destroyed her home of Theramore with one. There should be no doubt by anyone about who Jaina’s allegiances lie with between the Horde and Alliance.If the bell had gone to Silvermoon or even Org, she surely would have proctected it the same way.
Last edited by Jediguy; 2013-01-20 at 12:05 AM.
So you admit Jaina was wrong?Two wrongs don't make one right.
Again, no such proof exists to support this assertion.And, yet again, Jaina acted on her own power, the Sunreaver(s) used Dalaran to reach the Bell.
All that I'm trying to say is that Jaina did not used Dalaran and the Sunreavers did.
All the time it's: "Jaina acted on her own."
But at the same time it's: "the Sunreavers did...", while that was just Fanlyr sucking up to Garrosh.
Aethas is as anti-Garrosh as one can be, he even tried to convince Jaina of their innocence.
The Sunreavers even hold Garrosh just as responsible for what happened as Jaina, because his servant caused this mess.
It's in Darnassus, in the hands of the Kaldorei, so they can study this weapon.
In my opinion that should not be seen as 'in possession of the Kirin-Tor'.
Even when we have their leader literally saying that they are innocent to what happened.
I think Jaina acted too hasty.
When things would have resolved by talking, they would still be working together.
But now that she went on a purge, allowing the Silver Covenant to kill them, it's too late to mend those wounds.
Let me get this straight. I'm talking to the three people here named Kangodo, Jediguy and Aquamonkey. Are you telling to all the rest that The Horde with the Sunreavers are completely innocent and Jaina is the big bad villain here? Do you think the Kirin Tor put her in leading position just to help the Alliance own the Horde?
Last edited by Darth-Pinkaminus-Piekus; 2013-01-20 at 12:54 AM.
---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 12:56 AM ----------
But it's a bit hard to talk more when 5.2 spoilers do answer to some of the questions.
One thing is for sure, this is pure shades of grey, there is no good and evil here.
Last edited by Tauror; 2013-01-20 at 12:59 AM.
I think both Jaina and the Sunreavers are innocent, but both handled the situation in the worst way possible.
1) It's hypocrite to accuse someone of breaking neutrality because they helped the Horde, when you helped the Alliance yourself.
2) The Sunreavers and Silver Covenant were both never neutral, aiding the Horde/Alliance all the time.
3) The Sunreavers were not part of this treason, they were innocent and it was done by Fanlyr Silverthorn (an agent of Garrosh)
4) Before electing someone as the leader of your neutral faction, you should do a background check. Trying to destroy the faction-capital should make you unsuitable for the job.
And yes, the Sunreavers had nothing to do with this.
It was done by Fanlyr, who knew this would effect the Sunreavers, but who was an agent of Garrosh.
Tauror it's pointless to argue. They have made up their mind.
Yes you are right. The Sunreavers are innocent, the Horde is a faction of misunderstood creatures and Garrosh is a War Hero. Jaina is a war criminal and the Alliance are a bunch of Warmongers. We got it already.
Last edited by Darth-Pinkaminus-Piekus; 2013-01-20 at 01:18 AM.
Debatable but this is the wrong thread for that ^_^That has been my opinion of the Horde and Alliance for the last 7 years :P
Either way Silvermoon should have it's own academy for magic users. It would make a lot of sense. Yes I'm actually suggesting Blood Elves/Horde get something. I'm clearly insane and licking Garrosh's boots.
When I played it I thought "Woah, This is really dark for WoW". I automatically felt sympathy for the Blood Elves, they have shown no real signs of aggression to anyone since they joined in BC (Talking newer lore, not warcraft etc). Aethas doesn't ask smug or try attack Jaina where as Jaina goes around taking part in genocide.
After all of it, My thoughts on the matter are that I pray they give the Blood Elves their just reward, revenge.
Oh and I hope Vareesa dies. The whore.