Purge of Dalaran - Character vs. Player

[Deleted]

Hmm. This is getting trickier and trickier.

Indeed, especially considering Lor'Themar Theron was genuinely angry when he knew what had happened, blaming not only Jaina but Garrosh (therefore including his lapdog, Fanlyr) aswell for the tragic events. Doesn't make much sense to have Silvermoon Mages, unless they went there on their own, without authority from the Regent Lord.


EDIT: Good post, Duncanîdaho.

[Haven]

Moira and Thassarian, did I miss something? Is that Dwarf getting jiggy with a Death Knight?

My bad, I meant Thaurissan. Hmmmm, relatives maybe?

The Sunreavers betrayed them twice. It would be stupid to give them the chance to do it a third time. They should've been kicked out the first time.

What was the other thing besides those Bell shenanigans?

[styvan01]

My bad, I meant Thaurissan. Hmmmm, relatives maybe?

What was the other thing besides those Bell shenanigans?

Theramore, and no ones a dwarf, ones a human. I am sure that theyre not related.

[Haven]

Theramore, and no ones a dwarf, ones a human. I am sure that theyre not related.

That was a joke about relatives. Also, not only that kind of thing (Sunreaver betrayal) happened twice. Kel'thuzad and Arthas worked in a pair... good image for the Alliance.

[Deleted]

That was a joke about relatives. Also, not only that kind of thing (Sunreaver betrayal) happened twice. Kel'thuzad and Arthas worked in a pair... good image for the Alliance.

I understand Jaina might be too blind to understand what happened, but Et tu, Brute? It's clearly stated in the lore that the Sunreavers (sent by the Kirin Tor) willingly wanted to help Theramore, but Thalen tricked everyone into weakening the northern gate, instead of strenghtening it, playing the role of the Garrosh instead of the Sunreavers.

What happened in Dalaran was pretty much the same all over again.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I understand Jaina might be too blind to understand what happened, but Et tu, Brute? It's clearly stated in the lore that the Sunreavers (sent by the Kirin Tor) willingly wanted to help Theramore, but Thalen tricked everyone into weakening the northern gate, instead of strenghtening it, playing the role of the Garrosh instead of the Sunreavers.

What happened in Dalaran was pretty much the same all over again.

She's not a brute. I condone what she did but it is understandable why she did it. It also isn't the worst thing in the world she has done. Think of it this way "TWICE" Sunreavers have screwed her over and cost lives. How would you feel?

[styvan01]

She's not a brute.

Its a quote from a play, Julius Caesar. As he is stabbed by the Roman Senate, he turns to Brutus, and says "Et tu Brute" meaning "And you Brutus?" who proceeds to stab him

[Haven]

She's not a brute. I condone what she did but it is understandable why she did it. It also isn't the worst thing in the world she has done. Think of it this way "TWICE" Sunreavers have screwed her over and cost lives. How would you feel?

Like an idiot, that's for sure. But to drown Dalaran in blood... was a bit of overreacting (females...). Besides, she's really an idiot if Garrosh - that oafish-looking brute - is the only one playing the spy game (that kind of reminds me of Letho from Witcher 2). In her city. If this goes on, she'll awaken one day with Rise of the Horde in her bed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Like an idiot, that's for sure. But to drown Dalaran in blood... was a bit of overreacting (females...). Besides, she's really an idiot if Garrosh - that oafish-looking brute - is the only one playing the spy game (that kind of reminds me of Letho from Witcher 2). In her city. If this goes on, she'll awaken one day with Rise of the Horde in her bed.

Uhhh no you are once again being too harsh. She didn't drown Dalaran in blood. That's a big sensationalizing there. And what does overreacting have anything to do with females. I don't suggest making thinly veiled attack on females in threads.

[Haven]

Uhhh no you are once again being too harsh. She didn't drown Dalaran in blood. That's a big sensationalizing there. And what does overreacting have anything to do with females. I don't suggest making thinly veiled attack on females in threads.

Meh, it's only fair to be mildly shauvinistiс these days, just to balance things out. Well, I dunno, slaughtering half a district isn't a small deal to me, especially considering that the whole city is very small.

[Deleted]

That was a joke about relatives. Also, not only that kind of thing (Sunreaver betrayal) happened twice. Kel'thuzad and Arthas worked in a pair... good image for the Alliance.

Why do Kel and Arthas have anything to do with it. I mean we're not here to prove that Blood Elves are evil. We don't need to show that there are also evil humans. This is just about whether the Sunreavers can be trusted and how they honor their membership in the Kirin Tor. Since it really seems to look like it was only Fanlyr who was involved, we're only talking about 2 individuals out of the Sunreavers and I can feel why the whole of them feels unfairly treated. But you still have to consider Jaina had no way of knowing how many of them were involved in the retrieving of the Bell. All she knew was that she was betrayed twice. She had to do what's best for her people.

[Haven]

Why do Kel and Arthas have anything to do with it. I mean we're not here to prove that Blood Elves are evil. We don't need to show that there are also evil humans. This is just about whether the Sunreavers can be trusted and how they honor their membership in the Kirin Tor. Since it really seems to look like it was only Fanlyr who was involved, we're only talking about 2 individuals out of the Sunreavers and I can feel why the whole of them feels unfairly treated. But you still have to consider Jaina had no way of knowing how many of them were involved in the retrieving of the Bell. All she knew was that she was betrayed twice. She had to do what's best for her people.

That bitch! I wonder why she didn't slaughter mankind when she learned of Arthas' betrayal, just in case there were other Scourge initiates among them. It's all about the race in the end.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Meh, it's only fair to be mildly shauvinistiс these days, just to balance things out. Well, I dunno, slaughtering half a district isn't a small deal to me, especially considering that the whole city is very small.

My exact thoughts. But you know, hey, we're the biased oes.

[Deleted]

Everything went to hell in wrathgate, BEFORE undercity.

Also you probably jumped an expansion, because if Varian succeeded in killing thrall (which is still for debate) there wouldn't be an Azeroth now, Deathwing would have won. Every character would be death, so no! You are completely wrong. Jaina did the absolutely right thing at the point. It was Thrall's Horde not Garrosh's.

If Varian would have killed Thrall, there would certainly still be an Azeroth. The plot in Cataclysm would have just have been different.

Not sure why so many people are keen on defending Jaina. She was incredibly short-sighted and naive to think Garrosh would just sit there and watch as she abuses her neutral status to ship Alliance forces to Kalimdor in order to fight the Horde.

I suppose it's legit for the Alliance to use Theramore to infiltrate and fight the Horde, but the Horde using Dalaran as a transportion device to fight the Alliance is totally off the table. You say she did the right thing, but all she did was to make herself a legitimate target for Garrosh, and thus she doomed everyone at Theramore. It was an act of idiocy.

[Aquamonkey]

There's also that awkward moment when you (as the Horde PC) have to tell Aethas, Rommath, and Theron that you are partially responsible for the Sunreavers getting kicked out of Dalaran. The PC's role in this story is confusing. You're supposed to sympathize with the Blood Elves being used as fodder by Garrosh (when you are taken aside in a private conversation with Theron), but you take orders from Garrosh that put them at risk. You aren't even threatened with execution the way Fanlyr is. You do it just because Garrosh payed you. The whole time the Purge is happening, the PC should be like, "Yeah... sorry guys. I totally brought this down on you. That Fanlyr guy said he covered our tracks, but... yeah... My bad."

[Yriel]

If Varian would have killed Thrall, there would certainly still be an Azeroth. The plot in Cataclysm would have just have been different.

From a writers perspective... sure. They could have given Deathwing a heart-attack.
But from a lore perspective it's doubtful if anyone could have replaced Thrall as the earth-warden replacement. If you like it or not, he is by far the most powerful Shaman.

[Darth-Piekus]

I think that if Blizzard wanted they could have found a replacement for Thrall. You don't really need to be a Shaman in order to control the Dragon Soul. It's true that Thrall is the most powerful shaman as it's one of my favorite characters but I believe Blizzard can write their scenario with 1000 possible ways.

About the whole Sunreaver/ Dalaran thing I believe we all agree that if Garrosh hadn't started all this none of this would happen. You have to understand that either we like it or not the Alliance was on defensive each time. Theramore bringing Alliance troops to the barrens was due to Garrosh starting a war and not wanting to find a solution to the wood problem (I can give you 1000 solutions) which lead to the Theramore attack. This attack however didn't have Theramore as targets. Garrosh wanted to destroy as many as possible. He wanted to kill Rhonin with his Kirin Tor there. He wanted to kill the leader of the Blue Dragonflight there. He was attacking Neutral Factions all the time from Cataclysm until now. The retaliation of the first of many neutral factions was about to happen sooner or later and I believe that won't be the only one. Other neutral factions have legitimate reasons to stand up to Garrosh alongside the Alliance and the Rebels of the Horde. It's not about the break of neutrality for the sake of war. I don't think they can do otherwise.

And one more thing. When the Siege of Orgrimmar is over the Horde will have to do a very serious attempt to fix their reputation. There is a possibility that the Horde may never have another chance to prove that they are not like Garrosh. Think of it. When the Lich King was defeated and Garrosh took the lead immediately he started his campaign for the conquer of Azeroth. Sure there was Deathwing but check the two sides and you will see that Varian had his focus on Deathwing while Garrosh used the Cataclysm to gain an advantage. Who's to say the same thing won't happen after they defeat Sargeras for example. Who's to say another orc like Garrosh will rise up and do the same. The thing is the Horde will have to work even harder this time to prove that they left that warlike behavior behind.

It's true that not all of the Horde are like Garrosh but if you look at every NPC that was hit hard by the Horde they first thing they will say is that Horde did this and that and not Garrosh did this and that.

[Deleted]

That bitch! I wonder why she didn't slaughter mankind when she learned of Arthas' betrayal, just in case there were other Scourge initiates among them. It's all about the race in the end.

See, it's not all about the race. The Sunreavers weren't thrown out because they were Blood Elves, they were thrown out because they're Sunreavers. It's about affiliation and not about genetics. High Elves are the same race as Blood Elves, and the Alliance is fine with them. Stop making this argument.

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 01:16 PM ----------

Meh, it's only fair to be mildly shauvinistiс these days, just to balance things out. Well, I dunno, slaughtering half a district isn't a small deal to me, especially considering that the whole city is very small.

Neither is dropping a bomb on a city.

[Aquamonkey]

See, it's not all about the race. The Sunreavers weren't thrown out because they were Blood Elves, they were thrown out because they're Sunreavers. It's about affiliation and not about genetics. High Elves are the same race as Blood Elves, and the Alliance is fine with them. Stop making this argument.

It's actually the Blood Elves who are slightly racist against the Humans for past wrongs.

[Deleted]

It's actually the Blood Elves who are slightly racist against the Humans for past wrongs.

I do think they still hold a grudge against them, but I'm not sure about racism in WoW. The thing is that we have certain groups in WoW. Humans are not just humans, mainly they're the humans of Stormwind. Orcs aren't just any orcs. They're not fel orcs, they're not Mag'har. They're orcs who came to Azeroth from Draenor, years ago, most of them probably either during the first or the second war. They have a certain mentality and a certain history and it's fine to judge people based on their actions. I think the races we play in WoW are more like small factions in themselves.