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  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Lighto73 View Post
    You are contradicting yourself. On top of that, from what we are presented with present day Draenai, they follow the Light more than anything else. Their society isn't one like the Blood Elves built around magic, it's built around the Light, and their is no evidence supporting your claim to them being superior magic wielders, not in-game or out.
    And where is your evidence BRO? They are built around the light AND the arcane. Read Wowpedia (their sources are still in question) and the novels. You're not making any sense.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 12:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Don't feed it, it is pointless, if he is ignored he will leave sooner or later.
    LOL, that's just funny -and- pathetic. Assuming i'm a troll when you've got nothing better to say.

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by Norgannon the Dreamweaver View Post
    And where is your evidence BRO? They are built around the light AND the arcane. Read Wowpedia (their sources are still in question) and the novels. You're not making any sense.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 12:59 AM ----------

    LOL, that's just funny -and- pathetic. Assuming i'm a troll when you've got nothing better to say.
    You are the one making the assertion that they are arcane based. Therefore the burden of proof rests with you. I've read the novels, there are no mages from the Draenei. As far as the wowpedia goes, there is no source when it says the society is based on magic, so it could say anything and it's meaningless in an argument.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 08:12 PM ----------

    The Draenei may have a part of society based on magic, but that does not mean they are nearly as strong as the other races.

    It would be the same as saying that the Blood Elves have society based on magic and the Light (Blood Knights) and therefore they are as strong as the Draenei at wielding the Light.

  3. #1063
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    The amount of hypocrisy in these statements amazes me.

    The blood elves (the Gilneans) were being attacked by the Night elves and dwarves (invaded by the Forsaken), thus driving them towards the Horde (Alliance). The blood elves (Worgen) are now complicit in anything the Alliance does.

    By your logic, now the worgen are responsible for anything the Alliance does. So, it's alright to go towards the Alliance if the Horde is attacking, but if the Alliance is attacking, you're going to blame the Blood elves for siding with those that helped them?
    The Alliance were never at war with the Blood Elves. Just because one racist tried to use them as cannon fodder doesn't mean the actual Alliance leadership would have acted that way, but yes, he did speak for the Alliance because the Alliance put him in a position of authority.

    The worgen are a part of the Alliance, so yes, they are fair targets. If you support something then you are part of it.

    But the Forsaken attacked them for no reason before they became a part of the Alliance anyway.


    It seems like Horde players want to hide behind a we're-not-all-evil argument while the Horde war machine rampages across Azeroth again. At least the Frost Wolves had the honor to not support the Horde. If the Blood Elves don't want to be the enemy of the Alliance then they can't support the Horde. It's that simple.

  4. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The Alliance were never at war with the Blood Elves. Just because one racist tried to use them as cannon fodder doesn't mean the actual Alliance leadership would have acted that way, but yes, he did speak for the Alliance because the Alliance put him in a position of authority.

    The worgen are a part of the Alliance, so yes, they are fair targets. If you support something then you are part of it.

    But the Forsaken attacked them for no reason before they became a part of the Alliance anyway.


    It seems like Horde players want to hide behind a we're-not-all-evil argument while the Horde war machine rampages across Azeroth again. At least the Frost Wolves had the honor to not support the Horde. If the Blood Elves don't want to be the enemy of the Alliance then they can't support the Horde. It's that simple.
    Garithos was the de facto Alliance leadership at the time. It was also a different Alliance than the current one. Regardless, the Blood Elves were slighted by Humans while the Kirin Tor stood by complicit as they were imprisoned in Dalaran.

    "We Sin'dorei were driven to the Horde by the bigotry and distrust of the Alliance." -Theron

  5. #1065
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The Alliance were never at war with the Blood Elves. Just because one racist tried to use them as cannon fodder doesn't mean the actual Alliance leadership would have acted that way, but yes, he did speak for the Alliance because the Alliance put him in a position of authority.

    The worgen are a part of the Alliance, so yes, they are fair targets. If you support something then you are part of it.

    But the Forsaken attacked them for no reason before they became a part of the Alliance anyway.


    It seems like Horde players want to hide behind a we're-not-all-evil argument while the Horde war machine rampages across Azeroth again. At least the Frost Wolves had the honor to not support the Horde. If the Blood Elves don't want to be the enemy of the Alliance then they can't support the Horde. It's that simple.
    The Alliance had attacked the Blood Elves even before they joined the Horde, with the Darnassian intrusions and the Ironforge spy taking specs of everything. They were driven into the Horde because of that>

    Even in MoP, when they were in talks about re-joining the Alliance with Varian, they were driven back to the Horde because, once again, the Alliance forced them to.

  6. #1066
    Deleted
    "Norgannon the Dreamweaver" has to be the worst troll since new year's day.

  7. #1067
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Garithos was the de facto Alliance leadership at the time. It was also a different Alliance than the current one. Regardless, the Blood Elves were slighted by Humans while the Kirin Tor stood by complicit as they were imprisoned in Dalaran.

    "We Sin'dorei were driven to the Horde by the bigotry and distrust of the Alliance." -Theron
    And yet the Alliance has a large population of high elves.

    The Blood Elves are just making excuses. They weren't forced to join the Horde. Not until now. It was a mutually beneficial alliance, that's all. When Garrosh starts committing war crimes will the Blood Elves make excuses then for supporting a mass murderer? Their actions made Garrosh's war possible both through direct military support and by using Dalaran's portals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    The Alliance had attacked the Blood Elves even before they joined the Horde, with the Darnassian intrusions and the Ironforge spy taking specs of everything. They were driven into the Horde because of that>

    Even in MoP, when they were in talks about re-joining the Alliance with Varian, they were driven back to the Horde because, once again, the Alliance forced them to.
    The Alliance never invaded Silvermoon like the Forsaken literally invaded Gilneas.

    The Sunreavers abused their neutrality and used Dalaran to help the Horde. They have proven that they cannot be trusted. The Alliance can't afford to take risks.

  8. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    And yet the Alliance has a large population of high elves.

    The Blood Elves are just making excuses. They weren't forced to join the Horde. Not until now. It was a mutually beneficial alliance, that's all. When Garrosh starts committing war crimes will the Blood Elves make excuses then for supporting a mass murderer? Their actions made Garrosh's war possible both through direct military support and by using Dalaran's portals.
    You really don't seem to be up on the 5.1 lore. Here's the full quote: "We Sin'dorei were driven to the Horde by the bigotry and distrust of the Alliance. Now, I look at our Warchief, and I begin to see the very same racism. He is willing to throw away our lives for his agenda. Know this: I won't stand idle if the Horde interests conflict with those of my people. I may reconsider old Alliances." -Theron

    This was just before Theron started negotiations with Varian to rejoin the Alliance. Sure sounds like Theron supports Garrosh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The Sunreavers abused their neutrality and used Dalaran to help the Horde. They have proven that they cannot be trusted. The Alliance can't afford to take risks.
    ONE Sunreaver did this without the knowledge of the Sunreaver organization.

  9. #1069
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You really don't seem to be up on the 5.1 lore. Here's the full quote: "We Sin'dorei were driven to the Horde by the bigotry and distrust of the Alliance. Now, I look at our Warchief, and I begin to see the very same racism. He is willing to throw away our lives for his agenda. Know this: I won't stand idle if the Horde interests conflict with those of my people. I may reconsider old Alliances." -Theron
    That quote is total bullshit anyway. The Blood Elves were driven to the Horde due to their own bigotry and distrust. They blame the Alliance for the actions of 1 human that is long dead. The current Alliance is completely different than the one during the 3rd war, yet the Blood Elves still continue to blame the Alliance for something they didnt do.

    He also has a quote during the next patch about something like "The reason the Horde exists is because of the Alliance!"

    Another completely bullshit quote to make the Horde look like victims again. Garrosh and the Horde are the ones that want to 'claim all of Kalimdor for the Horde." Hes the one that wants to "paint this new continent red."

  10. #1070
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    And yet the Alliance has a large population of high elves.
    No, it does not, stop making stuff up and read a little bit of the lore.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 02:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    That quote is total bullshit anyway. The Blood Elves were driven to the Horde due to their own bigotry and distrust. They blame the Alliance for the actions of 1 human that is long dead. The current Alliance is completely different than the one during the 3rd war, yet the Blood Elves still continue to blame the Alliance for something they didnt do.
    That was Human was official the leader of the Alliance of Lordaeron, not a John Doe. To make your argument even less valid, the Blood Elves wanted to join the Alliance, but it turns out the Alliance decided to instead spy on them, rather than willingly trying to get them in. Afterwards they were offered aid by Sylvanas, who then recommended them to join the Horde, which they did since they were desperatly in need of help.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    He also has a quote during the next patch about something like "The reason the Horde exists is because of the Alliance!"

    Another completely bullshit quote to make the Horde look like victims again. Garrosh and the Horde are the ones that want to 'claim all of Kalimdor for the Horde." Hes the one that wants to "paint this new continent red."
    Who cares? Not many in the Horde like Garrosh (officially, not talking about players), and especially not Blood Elves. What's your point with this, anyway?
    Last edited by mmoc041784c2d8; 2013-01-26 at 02:21 AM.

  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    That quote is total bullshit anyway. The Blood Elves were driven to the Horde due to their own bigotry and distrust. They blame the Alliance for the actions of 1 human that is long dead. The current Alliance is completely different than the one during the 3rd war, yet the Blood Elves still continue to blame the Alliance for something they didnt do.

    He also has a quote during the next patch about something like "The reason the Horde exists is because of the Alliance!"

    Another completely bullshit quote to make the Horde look like victims again. Garrosh and the Horde are the ones that want to 'claim all of Kalimdor for the Horde." Hes the one that wants to "paint this new continent red."
    They left the Alliance because of Garithos, it's obvious he doesn't blame the current Alliance, but he does still hold resentment towards the Kirin Tor, who allowed the Blood Elves to be held in their prisons. On top of this, he was entering talks to rejoin the Alliance because Garrosh is an idiot.

    As far as the Horde existing because of the Alliance, this is true. The Alliance hated the Trolls, didn't help the Tauren, and is still racist against the Orcs and they hate the Forsaken. All of these things were BEFORE World of Warcraft patch 1.0. The Alliance created the Horde by not being tolerant of the Horde races a long time ago. Read Cycle of Hatred for a good example of racism on both Horde and Alliance parts.

    The current Horde war machine is not because of Alliance per se, but the original formation of the Horde IS.

  12. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by Lighto73 View Post
    As far as the Horde existing because of the Alliance, this is true. The Alliance hated the Trolls, didn't help the Tauren, and is still racist against the Orcs and they hate the Forsaken. All of these things were BEFORE World of Warcraft patch 1.0. The Alliance created the Horde by not being tolerant of the Horde races a long time ago. Read Cycle of Hatred for a good example of racism on both Horde and Alliance parts.
    Tauren joined with the Orcs and started killing humans in their very first encounter.
    Darkspear trolls joined with the Orcs to get away from the murlocs and sea witch, though some humans were moving into Stranglethorn.
    Humans have given the orcs lots of leeway over the years, the orcs have done nothing but thrown it in their face.
    Forsaken attacked the humans first, and showed no interest in ever trying to rejoin the Alliance.

    Last I checked its the Horde that is invading Alliance lands, forcing a response and counter attacks by the Alliance.

  13. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Tauren joined with the Orcs and started killing humans in their very first encounter.
    Darkspear trolls joined with the Orcs to get away from the murlocs and sea witch, though some humans were moving into Stranglethorn.
    Humans have given the orcs lots of leeway over the years, the orcs have done nothing but thrown it in their face.
    Forsaken attacked the humans first, and showed no interest in ever trying to rejoin the Alliance.

    Last I checked its the Horde that is invading Alliance lands, forcing a response and counter attacks by the Alliance.
    The Darkspear trolls joined Thrall because the Alliance invaded their islands before the murlocs and sea witch.

    An Alliance warship opened fire on a Goblin transport ship without warning.

    "Lots of leeway" is a funny way of saying slavery.

    Once secure, Sylvanas tried to open diplomatic discussions with all races. Only the Tauren responded favorably.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-01-26 at 02:45 AM.

  14. #1074
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Darkspear trolls joined Thrall because the Alliance invaded their islands before the murlocs and sea witch.

    An Alliance warship opened fire on a Goblin transport ship without warning.

    "Lots of leeway" is a funny way of saying slavery.

    Once secure, Sylvanas tried to open diplomatic discussions with all races. Only the Tauren responded favorably.
    Night Elves joined the Alliance because the orcs kept invading Ashenvale.
    Worgen rejoin the Alliance due to the Forsaken invading their lands 'because'.
    Last I checked, several humans have sacrificed alot to help the orcs (Jaina, Taretha, Tirion). No orc has ever sacrificed anything to help a human. Also prisoners are not the same thing as slaves. They were also prisoners for good reason.

    Why was the Allianced formed in the first place? Oh right, because of the Horde.

  15. #1075
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You really don't seem to be up on the 5.1 lore. Here's the full quote: "We Sin'dorei were driven to the Horde by the bigotry and distrust of the Alliance. Now, I look at our Warchief, and I begin to see the very same racism. He is willing to throw away our lives for his agenda. Know this: I won't stand idle if the Horde interests conflict with those of my people. I may reconsider old Alliances." -Theron

    This was just before Theron started negotiations with Varian to rejoin the Alliance. Sure sounds like Theron supports Garrosh.


    ONE Sunreaver did this without the knowledge of the Sunreaver organization.
    They abused Dalaran's neutrality and now it will never happen again.

    As for Theron, this will eventually be why they can't support Garrosh in good conscience. But you know, the Blood Elves are still a part of the Horde leading up to this nonetheless. The Blood Elves are enabling genocide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasconcellos View Post
    No, it does not, stop making stuff up and read a little bit of the lore.
    Yes it does. You just don't see them in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasconcellos View Post
    That was Human was official the leader of the Alliance of Lordaeron, not a John Doe. To make your argument even less valid, the Blood Elves wanted to join the Alliance, but it turns out the Alliance decided to instead spy on them, rather than willingly trying to get them in. Afterwards they were offered aid by Sylvanas, who then recommended them to join the Horde, which they did since they were desperatly in need of help.
    So after Silvermoon was wiped out by the undead, the Blood Elves decide to join forces with the undead. Lorelol. Oh wait I mean it was wiped out by Arthas. Big big difference right? Especially as Sylvanas is now raising people from the dead as loyal slaves herself. But let's side with her.

    The Alliance wasn't at war with the Blood Elves.

    Garithos did not speak for the Alliance really. He did but he wasn't the true voice of the Alliance, and everyone knew it. If Jaina had been in command of the remnants of the Alliance in the eastern kingdoms do you really think she would have sent the Blood Elves on a suicide mission?

    Everyone spies on everyone. That's a weak excuse. The Forsaken literally invaded Gilneas. Sylvanas used the plague on the city.

    The Alliance didn't invade Silvermoon.

  16. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Also prisoners are not the same thing as slaves.
    That is exactly true. It's also completely tangential to the fact that the Alliance enslaved the Orcs.

  17. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That is exactly true. It's also completely tangential to the fact that the Alliance enslaved the Orcs.
    What exactly where they doing with these slaves, besides having them rot in camps? The orcs were doing absolutely nothing.

  18. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Garithos did not speak for the Alliance really. He did but he wasn't the true voice of the Alliance, and everyone knew it. If Jaina had been in command of the remnants of the Alliance in the eastern kingdoms do you really think she would have sent the Blood Elves on a suicide mission?
    Except that Garithos was the highest ranking member of the Alliance left. That makes him the voice of the Alliance. He was also a baron, giving the right of succession in the Kingdom of Lordaeron. Tell me again how he didn't speak for the Alliance?

  19. #1079
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That is exactly true. It's also completely tangential to the fact that the Alliance enslaved the Orcs.
    Lol. The Alliance *spared* the orcs. The Alliance could have exterminated them all but king Terenas decided to put them in internment camps instead.

  20. #1080
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Except that Garithos was the highest ranking member of the Alliance left. That makes him the voice of the Alliance. He was also a baron, giving the right of succession in the Kingdom of Lordaeron. Tell me again how he didn't speak for the Alliance?
    Tell me again how the Alliance of Lordaeron, which doesnt exist anymore, is in any way relevant to the current Allaince?

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