View Poll Results: What would it be?

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  • Happy

    224 59.89%
  • ANGRY

    150 40.11%
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  1. #181
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    And then, when blizzard finds a certain class is "outperforming" everyone else by a large margin, either because their CC's are too strong for 3's or their burst capability is too unpredictable, they proceed to heavily nerf those particular skills entirely, so much in the reverse that it almost breaks those skills' usefulness in pvp and PvE alike sometimes.

    Now, I am not advocating something as stupid as removing all PvP altogether, but the Arena aspect of PvP has by far caused serious damage to the viability of certain class compositions, some of which were so severe it made their usefullness in PvE almost null and void too (cases in the past: ret paladins early cata, resto shamans, arcane mages, fury warriors, and rogues) <- each of those classes and spec builds have been affected by changes that were required because at one point in time or another they were either too effective in PvP because of a certain skillset or ability, or were buffed and causing imbalances because they were not "viable" enough in the arena rosters for too long.

    Trying to deny that PvP has affected PvE in WoW is like saying the broken bone in your arm isn't why your arm is hurting in the first place.
    I agree with you until here. I honestly cannot remember the last time a throughput nerf went through for the sake of PvP, unless you're going to argue for the influence PvP may have had on pre-expansion restructuring patches (we don't know how true that is; you'd just be looking for a scapegoat).

    Of your examples, I'm not really sure what you're trying to point out to be completely honest. Ret was weak across the board at Cataclysm launch if I recall correctly. Shaman were the strongest PvP healer from day one of Cataclysm and still are to this day, yet was fed nothing but buffs for the sake of PvE. Arcane and fury aren't really known as PvP specs, so I don't know how those correlate with arena balance. Rogues had always been one of the strongest PvP classes and they're much weaker now after 5.0, but to put that all on arena balance is nothing more than a guess. It could just as likely be that their plan to bolster numbers with legendary daggers was overly effective and they wanted to lower rogue numbers again. I doubt rogues' low damage is a result of arena balance though, as they've been balancing almost entirely on control adjustments recently. Besides, rogues' damage is the one thing they still have going for them. They've still got enough burst to kill someone, they just have gimped mobility and survivability now.

    Historically, I think PvE balance has had a larger effect on PvP than vice versa, but I'm sure it's gone both ways to some degree.

  2. #182
    I still find it funny that so many people claim they would quit because all they do is pvp.

    To each his own I guess, but why would you strictly pvp in wow when there are literally hundreds of other games where the pvp is 100% better?
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  3. #183
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    I really don't think PvP affects PvE as much as the other way around. I also don't get what you mean with those classes you mentioned... are you saying they had to get nerfed in PvP and also got nerfed in PvE? Ret paladin weren't good at the start of cata in PvP, what nerf are you talking about? Resto shamans were average in PvP at the start of cata and got buffed into godmode by 15 % mastery increase because of PvE only (and made the whole cata expansion shit for arena with one single PvE buff). Arcane mages? Useless in arena during the whole cata, why would they get nerfed in PvE? Fury warriors - only played because arms was so shit. Rogues were decent throughout the whole cata (s9 dk/rogue/healer was beyong stupid, just not played much) and got sick dmg buffs because of PvE.
    When i said those classes I didnt mean solely in Cataclysm alone, I was talking about those particular specs throughout WoW's life cycle, all of those classes had been nerfed or buffed due to problems in arena, and Paladins early cata were too powerful with Offhealing using WoG when it had no Cooldown (pretty much, they could get full holy power and WoG chain their teammates with a certain talent in prot, making them unkillable in 2's and 3's )

    Resto shamans weren't doing well in arenas during ICC so they got buffed, making cata crappy cause they NEVER died... (remember doing 2's and 3's, we would CC his freind, then pop our CD's and he had mortal strike applied, he still never went below 50% because of their ability to heal while moving, i think it was healing rain that allowed them to do that?) Even killing them in BG's were rediculous, a decently geared shaman took 6 people to kill him sometimes.

    I understand not all of my examples seem clear, but those were the ones that came to mind first.
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2013-01-02 at 06:19 PM.
    And should he be a prophet of It's coming, he shall be cast out by his kin and his peers, for they cannot comprehend and fear the end of the corrupt empire. - Unknown, 3/1/2012
    I am Lothaeryn, Dragonborn of Nirn and Paladin of Azeroth. Hear my voice and tremble... Bask in my radiance and be inspired...
    For I am the Hand of Dawn, and justice shall be done by my shout and by my blade.

  4. #184
    I'd unsub, but I wouldn't be angry.

    The games gone downhill so much since Wrath I'd barely care anymore, it'd just be the final nail in the coffin.

    PvE affects PvP, PvP affects PvE; when it comes down to it the only reason this is an issue is because of the developers shortcomings, they're totally incompetent when it comes to juggling the two.

    To each his own I guess, but why would you strictly pvp in wow when there are literally hundreds of other games where the pvp is 100% better?
    In terms of style, WoW PvP is still the best in its genre. Why would you PvE in a 8 year old dated MMO? Also people do both PvE and PvP, and they'd still quit if one/the other got removed.
    Last edited by Champxoxo; 2013-01-02 at 06:14 PM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    I still find it funny that so many people claim they would quit because all they do is pvp.

    To each his own I guess, but why would you strictly pvp in wow when there are literally hundreds of other games where the pvp is 100% better?
    Because when push comes to shove it's not. It might be more balanced but not always more fun in other games. The smoothness of wow pvp, the reaction, counter reaction and counter counter reaction, ability variance, lack of latency, movement etc. all make it just more...slick than any other mmo.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    I still find it funny that so many people claim they would quit because all they do is pvp.

    To each his own I guess, but why would you strictly pvp in wow when there are literally hundreds of other games where the pvp is 100% better?
    Could you name one other (MMORPG) that isn't DAoC that has less shitty PvP than WoW?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    When i said those classes I didnt mean solely in Cataclysm alone, I was talking about those particular specs throughout WoW's life cycle, all of those classes had been nerfed or buffed due to problems in arena, and Paladins early cata were too powerful with Offhealing using WoG when it had no Cooldown (pretty much, they could get full holy power and WoG chain their teammates with a certain talent in prot, making them unkillable in 2's and 3's )

    Resto shamans weren't doing well in arenas during ICC so they got buffed, making cata crappy cause they NEVER died... (remember doing 2's and 3's, we would CC his freind, then pop our CD's and he had mortal strike applied, he still never went below 50% because of their ability to heal while moving, i think it was healing rain that allowed them to do that?) Even killing them in BG's were rediculous, a decently geared shaman took 6 people to kill him sometimes.

    I understand not all of my examples seem clear, but those were the ones that came to mind first.
    I really don't remember ret paladins being op at the start of cata. First it was ferals and uh dks, then there were both arms and fury warrs, followed by frost dk stupidity and then s10 mls came. I don't remember anyone playing with ret paladins at all there, they were pretty shit appart from their healing until ret/dk/priest and triple dps made them viable.

    The last MLG in wotlk was won by a resto shaman team, mls was pretty sick as well, so I wouldn't say resto shamans were bad back then. Also your reasoning for them being buffed in early cata is completely wrong, it was based solely on PvE - everyone was crying that resto shamans are 15 % lower on WoL parses than other healers.

    Arcane mages were overpowered during wotlk in PvE until late icc fire buffs as far as I remember, so that's why I don't understand this one either.

    So nothing against you, but this feels to me like the usual "omg nerfed because of arena idiots" when in reality none of the examples really make any sense. To me.

  8. #188
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Where's the "meh" section?

    I don't do arenas, nor do I hate them (I'm just not interested) so I probably wouldn't care.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  9. #189
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    I really don't remember ret paladins being op at the start of cata. First it was ferals and uh dks, then there were both arms and fury warrs, followed by frost dk stupidity and then s10 mls came. I don't remember anyone playing with ret paladins at all there, they were pretty shit appart from their healing until ret/dk/priest and triple dps made them viable.

    The last MLG in wotlk was won by a resto shaman team, mls was pretty sick as well, so I wouldn't say resto shamans were bad back then. Also your reasoning for them being buffed in early cata is completely wrong, it was based solely on PvE - everyone was crying that resto shamans are 15 % lower on WoL parses than other healers.

    Arcane mages were overpowered during wotlk in PvE until late icc fire buffs as far as I remember, so that's why I don't understand this one either.

    So nothing against you, but this feels to me like the usual "omg nerfed because of arena idiots" when in reality none of the examples really make any sense. To me.

    Yea, I apologize, I am not going to say I kept track of viable specs very well over my length of PvPing, but the main point I was trying to draw is that most class specs did at one point in time or another get buffed or nerfed due to PvP reasons, I just am bad at giving some solid examples as my memory is starting to get fuzzy after being off WoW for more than a year now.

    And yes, I know firsthand how bad rets were in Cataclysm, I played one :P pissed me off more than enough. I do remember that offhealing was ridiculous though with selfless healer.
    And should he be a prophet of It's coming, he shall be cast out by his kin and his peers, for they cannot comprehend and fear the end of the corrupt empire. - Unknown, 3/1/2012
    I am Lothaeryn, Dragonborn of Nirn and Paladin of Azeroth. Hear my voice and tremble... Bask in my radiance and be inspired...
    For I am the Hand of Dawn, and justice shall be done by my shout and by my blade.

  10. #190
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correlia View Post
    Finally, no more PvE nerfs due to stupid PvP bull crap.
    You do know that blizzard is starting to actually nerf damage in a manner of nerfing it when used on players, right?

    I'd be pretty pissed. It was already a shame they removed skirmishes (never played them due to being a lowbie back in wotlk, but the idea sounded extremely convenient), but if they were to remove the actual arenas.. Idk what would happen to WoW. I'd be pretty certain WoW would lose a good amount of players.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Skur View Post
    I would get mad, and I don't play arena, I mostly do PvE and some battlegrounds.
    I wouldn't want to have raids removed for my sake, and I don't want others to lose their favorite part of the game either. It would only selfish to be happy about that because "then there wouldn't be any stupid nerfs". Just accept the fact that there would still be nerfs, and learn to adapt just like everyone else.
    My reaction and situation too.

  12. #192
    Pit Lord
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    i dont play anymore but when i did thats basically all i ever cared about, so i would have to vote id be upset. that being said and possibly a little off topic but im not entirely sure why people think it would be a good idea. you would essentially being taking away things players can do in a time when their goal is to add things players can do so it seems a little counterproductive.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    You do know that blizzard is starting to actually nerf damage in a manner of nerfing it when used on players, right?
    too little and too late in my opinion but well.
    I wouldn't be angry but not happy either. I still enjoy the occasional arena game just out of boredom during farm time.

  14. #194
    High Overlord
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    I do arenas once a week for the cap and I don't like them so much, but so many stupid statements over here so...

    -If they wanted a only pve game they would have introduced only one faction. World pvp was their main objective at launch and they succeed so much that the servers could not handle it so they had to instance it. Holy shit they designed a great RPG not a pve or pvp focused one, because the vanilla pvp was not just an accident.

    -If they had not introduced arenas they would not have introduced flying mounts to avoid hurting world pvp among other things.

    -Some pve players changes their spec for a stupid 1k dps increase on a dummie or a noob's post on the forums while they dont understand that every fight is different. It is not arenas fault if you do lees damage than others.
    Last edited by Wirzy; 2013-01-03 at 04:39 AM.

  15. #195
    Wouldn't care much. I only played Arena during TBC where I got the Challenger rank (You can make fun of me now, that seems to be the new thing) and shortly in Wotlk. Never touched it during late Wotlk and there after. If no Arena would result in a more interesting
    BG system (Maps, reward, design etc) I would be all for it, but I know it will never happen.

    Remember, my opinion.

  16. #196
    Were u interrupting and stunning the shaman are just rolling ur face across the keyboard hoping for a quick kill.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleepz View Post
    How about we remove all PvE stuff instead and you can do nothing else but PvP including PvP leveling?.....


    This game is basicly 60% pve 40% pvp and blizzard already stated they wanted MoP to be more of a pvp addon to give pvpers something too!

    Also patch 5.1 is basicly a PvP themed PvE patch as you may have noticed or basicly the whole addon is and the talent tree redesign is more about pvp aswell.


    If PvP gets nerfed because of PvE it's fine
    If Pve gets nerfed because of PvP backpedaling casual pvers whine about it

    Let's do it the other way round instead. Remove PvE please.
    it is definitely not 40/60. Not sure what game you are playing...
    and no the talent tree is so that it is not all cookie cutter builds, not pve or pvp exclusively.

  18. #198
    Brewmaster Xl House lX's Avatar
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    Wow... more than 50% would be happy if they were removed. Thats crazy, its not an entirely representative sample but if this was the case for the whole WoW community Blizzard could spend less resources on something only half of the community cares about and spend em in something they do.

    Arenas are nothing but a guessing game anyways, and in sense a matter of luck. Thats all it is.
    Call me House.

  19. #199
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    the easiest way to fix the pvp vs. pve discussion is to just bite the bullet and seperate the way ALL abilities/spells work between pve and pvp. ive read that they dont want to do this because its time consuming, but it would finally keep people from claiming "pve suffers because of pvp" and "pvp suffers because of pve".

    the unfortunate downside to this, is if its true and it takes them awhile to seperate spells/abilities then people would bitch and complain that they spent too much time on that and not enough time on pve content, pvp content. despite the fact its something the game desperately needs

  20. #200
    They are far from a matter of luck and the same can be said about a lot of pve fights finding bugs for world first and such.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 04:40 AM ----------

    name some this expansion?
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

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