If arenas were removed from WoW

[galikanokus]

Lothaeryn, you are almost hitting the nail on the head with: "pvp design to be balanced around 10+ vs. 10+, where class composition necessities start to becom meaningless, and coordinated cooperative strategy is more essential"

I myself think they should go more with a Rock Paper Scissors approach to pvp balance. Each class should be strong against 2-3 classes, and weak against 2-3 classes.
Everyone is crying about the "burst" damage, when its actually the CC that needs to be addressed, imo.

As for the debate of PvP vs PvE, some of you need to step back and leave you emotions out of this. Blizzard is in it to make money, that what companies do, especially ones with shareholders. The PvP aspect was one of the things Blizzard used to market the game and differentiate it the other MMORPGs of the time.

PvP is as much apart of this game as PvE is, its also why on release we had PvP realms, and it is also why on a PvE realm you can flag yourself as PvP.

The argument with "oh they didn't add battlegrounds till much later after release" is bullshit. Blizzard had a deadline to meet, BGs were unfinished and therefore didn't make it in the initial release.

Also think about this. If PvPers were such a small minority of the player base why would blizzard cater to them? You saw how blizzard handled the whole "hardcore vs casual" argument.

Happy new years

[Crackleslap]

Now see, i don't actually PvP or arena at max level. But I love to watch others PvP. I actually just sit outside Stormwind and just watch the people dueling. I find it intriguing. I watch arena's on youtube. It's enjoyable. So I would be angry if it were to be removed. PvP (Arena) was implemented into the game, and it's here to stay. To many people involved already.

[Valkryx]

Warcraft is about Horde Vs. Alliance. They were balancing the franchise for "PvP" before the game even entered pre production. WC3 had a huge PvP community.

uhm way no and easily proven, scroll back to my last post on this thread.

[Itisamuh]

It wouldn't affect me much, I prefer battlegrounds. But I suppose removing arena would mean that the class balancing would return to battlegrounds instead of the joke that's arena, so I'd consider removing it a good thing.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I'd be happy to see them stop nerfing abilities into the ground (Divine Shield anyone? Who remembers when it used to last 12 seconds and didn't reduce damage dealt?) for the sake of PvP balance. I prefer to PvP in games where gear isn't a factor, only skill and teamwork.

[Divineknight13]

i would just quit wow...

[endersblade]

Finally, no more PvE nerfs due to stupid PvP bull crap.

Toooooooootally this >.> Arenas have been the bane of PvE ever since they were added in.

[Stuffs]

Toooooooootally this >.> Arenas have been the bane of PvE ever since they were added in.

And I'd wager your're exaggerating the issue.
The only issue that comes to mind is fire after the combustion issue, but even then they still have two specs dominating the charts.

[Volitar]

I wouldn't be "HAPPY" because I don't really do any pvp but I guess the game would be better for me.

[Iamanerd]

uhm way no and easily proven, scroll back to my last post on this thread.

While the game wasn't designed at first with arena in mind they made a choice to implement it and try it out and there's a good amount of people who enjoy it now, so sitting here saying "oh they should remove arena" does nothing at all. Also if it was removed it would cause a lot more trouble for blizzard. Also with what was linked the page before was him saying that he'd try and implement it differently or build it from the ground up in a different way.

Plus it doesn't affect PvE as much as one thinks, because if it was removed there would still be changes because there's still bg's and people will complain nerf X because it hit for Y amount etc.

[slackjawsix]

this thread is pretty much just pve players saying the rest of us shouldnt pvp cause some occasional nerfs are because of pvp and no way because the nerf is due to its power in pve as well
i rlly hope if a poll option was wouldnt care id see more of those over happy

[Stuffs]

Plus it doesn't affect PvE as much as one thinks, because if it was removed there would still be changes because there's still bg's and people will complain nerf X because it hit for Y amount etc.

You just know some of these people would eventually argue to remove pvp servers/duels altogether.

[Itisamuh]

amen! lol and hell blizzard has actually said before that they regret arena.

WarCry Interviews Rob Pardo

"As for the biggest mistake? There's a lot of them that I think, were ... they just "fell out" of things. One example: I wish the servers were more stable when we launched, of course - there's a lot of that sort of thing. We have a lot of excuses for that - we didn't expect nearly the response - but we can't say it wasn't a mistake. If I was going to pick on a game design thing that I look back on and think was a mistake? We really never designed WoW to be a competitive e-sports game; it was something that we decided to start tackling because there was such a desire and demand to evolve it in that direction, to introduce competitive arenas. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do with the game.

We didn't engineer the game and classes and balance around it, we just added it on, so it continues to be very difficult to balance. Is WoW a PvE cooperative game, or a competitive PvP game? There's constant pressure on the class balance team, there's pressure on the game itself, and a lot of times players who don't PvP don't understand why their classes are changing. I don't think we ever foresaw how much tuning and tweaking we'd have to do to balance it in that direction. Either I'd go back in time to before WoW ever shipped and change the rules to make the basic game more conductive for being an e-sport, or if not that, just say it doesn't make sense. Right now, WoW has a bit of a schizophrenic philosophy behind it, and we're trying to figure out how to guide it.

It's tricky, now that we've gone down that road, because we have a passionate, large audience that enjoys it - the Arena, the e-sport - so we can't just chop off that head. We can't just say, "We fouled up and will go back to how it used to be before," because we have a really passionate audience that wants it in the game.

If I could go back in time before we shipped WoW, I would have either made serious changes to basic class balance to facilitate that type of play, or if I went back to when we had the idea two years later, I would have said, "Maybe we shouldn't go there.""

so yea, now say the game was meant for pvp...

"or if I went back to when we had the idea two years later, I would have said, "Maybe we shouldn't go there."" - exactly what he should have done

Thank you, I've been looking for that quote. It's a shame that a few hundred delusional players who think an MMO can be a competitive game is ruining it for everybody else. BGs, and according to most people PvE, were both more fun before Blizzard started trying futilely to balance the game around group duels. Not to mention the PvP community was way friendlier...

[Iamanerd]

You just know some of these people would eventually argue to remove pvp servers/duels altogether.

Pretty much and personally I love PvP servers now with the CRZ and the feeling of danger existing all the time and when a fight breaks out I hop on my main

---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 01:55 AM ----------

Thank you, I've been looking for that quote. It's a shame that a few hundred delusional players who think an MMO can be a competitive game is ruining it for everybody else. BGs, and according to most people PvE, were both more fun before Blizzard started trying futilely to balance the game around group duels. Not to mention the PvP community was way friendlier...

Uhmm maybe you're being a bit delusional thinking it's merely a few hundred players....... Plus define competitive, from what I've seen many things can be classified as competitive.

[Stuffs]

Pretty much and personally I love PvP servers now with the CRZ and the feeling of danger existing all the time and when a fight breaks out I hop on my main

Mixed feelings. Sometimes its fun, sometimes its a bit annoying, but thats what you sign up for on a pvp realm.

If it ever gets too bad there are always other options though. I have far too many alts just sitting at 80 from RAF and all that.

[Milchshake]

Wasn't Resilience introduced for the sake of arenas? Resilience really messed up world pvp in my opinion.

World PVP was thrilling because encounters could be random and so were the outcomes.
But with some pvp bros trolling daily quest hubs in full pvp gear, the outcome is rarely random. They can "pvp" at little risk to themselves. Its the Ganking Lotus hub on a pvp server.

Anyways I remember attempting the the Onyxia raid on the pvp server in beta. Back then Strath and UBRS were basically 25 mans anyways. Even rougher when the level cap was 55.

[Abysal]

I liked Arena's at a point in the game where you could do them for fun. Y'know, unrated matches, matches where you could team up with anyone, or you could go in with friends and it wouldn't matter at all if you won or lost, it was just for fun. Now it all matters and its not that fun.. So really it wouldn't affect me.

This. Arena is a good idea. It's just the competitive nature that requires it to be balanced so much that creates a problem. It'd be much better if PvP was focused on Rated BGs.

[Deleted]

Blizzard should have listened from start and created separate talent/skill trees for Arena's when they added it in first place.
That way they would have been no affection between PvE and PvP nerfs.
But they wanted to be as good in PvP as Arena.Net, and forgot that WoW is a complete different game when it comes to PvE.
So either remove Arena's or stop being lazy and add the needed PvE-PvP separation.

[Zoma]

Happy I suppose, as it would mean more resources towards PvE, and less trying to balance a class to be viable for both PvE and PvP. In all honesty though, I doubt it would effect me in any significant way.

[Valkryx]

While the game wasn't designed at first with arena in mind they made a choice to implement it and try it out and there's a good amount of people who enjoy it now, so sitting here saying "oh they should remove arena" does nothing at all. Also if it was removed it would cause a lot more trouble for blizzard. Also with what was linked the page before was him saying that he'd try and implement it differently or build it from the ground up in a different way.

Plus it doesn't affect PvE as much as one thinks, because if it was removed there would still be changes because there's still bg's and people will complain nerf X because it hit for Y amount etc.

no he straight out said if he could go back before the implementation he probably would not have done it, and that it was never designed with pvp in mind
"If I could go back in time before we shipped WoW, I would have either made serious changes to basic class balance to facilitate that type of play, or if I went back to when we had the idea two years later, I would have said, "Maybe we shouldn't go there."" there is no twisting that

now as to the removal yes he said they couldn't cause too many people love it and i'll agree even tho i hate it and think its been terrible for the game its far too late to just remove it now.