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  1. #1

    Is extra energy the right direction?

    So it seems like the major buff for survivability is baseline prep and the major buff for damage is the extra 50 energy from vigor, but will this really help our damage?

    Sublety
    Sure we will be able to get more attacks in before having to pool energy. The problem is I don't feel like the extra 2 backstabs or ambushes will add up to much. I was really hoping for a straight buff to damage rather than this. Most of our damage comes from eviscerate while backstab's damage is laughable against a geared player. Our burst during SD+SB is good because of the amount of eviscerates we are able to get off. I can't say that energy has much of an effect during this period, not even as much as GCD. I usually make sure to have SnD up and energy becomes a non issue during burst. I honestly expected a damage buff for backstab or the return of puncturing wounds in some way. I know more energy = more backstabs = more eviscerates but it hardly matters outside of burst, the damage just isn't there without a strong of crits

    Assassination
    For assassination I see promise. Our main ability as sin is mutilate which costs 55 energy. With the new vigor our energy is now 170. This could actually be a significant buff to assassination all around. I think this could be a huge buff to our opener and burst windows. I don't know if Assassination could overtake Sub as the better PvP spec but it's possible.

    I would like to know some other Rogue's opinions on this buff to our energy cap.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Imbashiethz's Avatar
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    50 more energy will help out damage so much. How often do you burst and end up spamming your evis waiting for energy? That will still happen, but less often.

  3. #3
    Does haste increase your haste regen on a %age value or a flat amount? If it's a %age then vigor will also end up increasing haste regen by quite a bit as well, making it a damage increase for sure, let alone a buff on burst damage, with pooling energy for more specials at once.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    Does haste increase your haste regen on a %age value or a flat amount? If it's a %age then vigor will also end up increasing haste regen by quite a bit as well, making it a damage increase for sure, let alone a buff on burst damage, with pooling energy for more specials at once.
    10% haste = 1 more eps how much total energy you have means nothing on regen.

    On topic the bonus energy honestly is pointless for any spec but sub combat builders and finsher are joke dmg assassination same thing. Sub is the only spec that abilities do any "real" dmg. We needed something better than 10 energy but I don't know if this is it they could come up with something new but just bumping energy was the easiest.

  5. #5
    High Overlord shalnath's Avatar
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    I'm really looking forward to this change. Increased burst during openers and while pooling energy is perfect for rogues.

    I'm very impressed Blizzard managed to come up with such a simple change that has the potential to yield incredibly complex results.

  6. #6
    It's going to add up ALOT. you dont think an extra 2 backstabs would be good during burst periods?

  7. #7
    The Patient Isoge's Avatar
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    I hope it won't be TOO good. You can probably expect a nerf biting us in the ass sooner or later during the beta. If not, then woop woop, celebration time.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    We're still very early into the expansion so the amount of Haste available to Rogues is very low, compared to the end-game gear you had in Dragon Soul. As we progress and get better geared, you'll find your Energy regenerates a lot faster as you'll have a larger pool of Haste.

    Asking the Rogue community to wait for another 8 - 9 months before they can get a more comfortable level of Energy Regeneration is not a good design, and I agree something needs to be done, but I have my doubts about adding more energy.

    I've not played a Rogue in end-game, and I have little knowledge of them right now, but by adding +50 Energy it would solve a lot of issues now, but wouldn't it mean that as your Haste pools increases with better gear, that Rogues may find themselves unable to spend the Energy they have, making them potentially an overpowered, but very strict class where every GCD is filled with a very strict rotation?

  9. #9
    If they dont fix energy regen, increasing the size of the energy pool will only help us spam one more offensive spell on top of already energy starved class.

    Rogues in MoP gave the new meaning to the phrase "I am oom" unfortunately....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    We're still very early into the expansion so the amount of Haste available to Rogues is very low, compared to the end-game gear you had in Dragon Soul. As we progress and get better geared, you'll find your Energy regenerates a lot faster as you'll have a larger pool of Haste.

    Asking the Rogue community to wait for another 8 - 9 months before they can get a more comfortable level of Energy Regeneration is not a good design, and I agree something needs to be done, but I have my doubts about adding more energy.

    I've not played a Rogue in end-game, and I have little knowledge of them right now, but by adding +50 Energy it would solve a lot of issues now, but wouldn't it mean that as your Haste pools increases with better gear, that Rogues may find themselves unable to spend the Energy they have, making them potentially an overpowered, but very strict class where every GCD is filled with a very strict rotation?
    I believe the change is for the pvp set bonus. So it won't be a problem for end game PvE but a good QoL change for pvp

  11. #11
    The entire thing depends on how much uptime you have on your target. Sure openers will be more bursty with more energy but if you can't get to your target then it won't matter much in the long run.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    The entire thing depends on how much uptime you have on your target. Sure openers will be more bursty with more energy but if you can't get to your target then it won't matter much in the long run.
    to be honest, just picture it though... shruiken toss has a ridiculously low energy cost. and does ranged auto attacks. with a larger energy pool, we can now spam shurikens/DT like mad till we get back on target!

  13. #13
    SB-Dance with 150 energy seems like tons of burst, unless the target gets away, then it is just business as usual, lose up time on target lose dps get kited.

  14. #14
    The extra energy will also ake Subterfuge even better, as we wont be on 0 energy after two openers. Instead we can Cheap Shot-Garrote-Ambush-SND and and still have some energy left to actually do some damage.


  15. #15
    Field Marshal
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    its amazing! burst in SD will be awsome SV is gonna be nice too!

  16. #16
    extra energy means more burst but because of the way energy regen is right now it also means we have to sit like useless mugs whilst pooling energy for longer too.. Although it's a step 'foward' there is a lot that needs to be done, so optimistically speaking I hope this is just the first step to a list of fixes and I hope blizz will address that sooner rather than later.
    I would agree with you...but then we'd both be wrong.

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Delighted's Avatar
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    Subterfuge might actually become viable now.

  19. #19
    A good thing for PvP, since the extra pool grants a longer/more reliable burst. The actual power has still to be tested, but it's a good change imho.

  20. #20
    More burst, but almost as importantly - faster ramp up time in both PvE and PvP.

    The inference from Blizzard is that they are happy with the current mid-fight special/auto attack balance though, for better or worse.

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