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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryft View Post
    More burst, but almost as importantly - faster ramp up time in both PvE and PvP.

    The inference from Blizzard is that they are happy with the current mid-fight special/auto attack balance though, for better or worse.
    In PvE nothing changes, since bthe energy pool is given by PvP set bonuses.

  2. #22
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Just to add, last I checked, Assassination only has 150 energy on the PTR with this change.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  3. #23
    This will be a rather large buff in pvp. It will help a bit with being kited / controlled because we'll have a deeper pool. It will help a lot when pooling offensively for a threat. It will even help making AR much less wasteful in pvp. Vigor change pretty great.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by shalnath View Post
    I'm really looking forward to this change. Increased burst during openers and while pooling energy is perfect for rogues.

    I'm very impressed Blizzard managed to come up with such a simple change that has the potential to yield incredibly complex results.
    well I don't see it doing very much, except for increasing some burst at the start, or after having been off target.
    The poor energy regen we have will still make us look at the bar waiting for energy to regen.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  5. #25
    Dude, if you are "staring at your bar, waiting for it to regen", I don't think you are playing much pvp really.

    Our sustained damage is fine in pve. Our burst is lacking compared to many classes. Our control is average, and can be a bit above average during blind / dance / bomb cooldowns.

    If you get an opponent low and are ooe, then you didn't have the ability to burst him then. Other classes, even amazing classes such as warriors, have similar issues- they expend their resources and it's not good enough to get a kill. Upping energy regen would be a massive rogue buff in pvp and pve- and one that isn't needed. What this does is allow for you to pool to a much higher potential, such that your burst cycle is substantially more fatal.

    Rogues should be in pretty good shape in 5.2. If we aren't good enough it will be a lack of mobility, being over controlled, or being neutralized by new stuff like monk tricks. It won't be because we need perma-AR.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Dude, if you are "staring at your bar, waiting for it to regen", I don't think you are playing much pvp really.

    Our sustained damage is fine in pve. Our burst is lacking compared to many classes. Our control is average, and can be a bit above average during blind / dance / bomb cooldowns.

    If you get an opponent low and are ooe, then you didn't have the ability to burst him then. Other classes, even amazing classes such as warriors, have similar issues- they expend their resources and it's not good enough to get a kill. Upping energy regen would be a massive rogue buff in pvp and pve- and one that isn't needed. What this does is allow for you to pool to a much higher potential, such that your burst cycle is substantially more fatal.

    Rogues should be in pretty good shape in 5.2. If we aren't good enough it will be a lack of mobility, being over controlled, or being neutralized by new stuff like monk tricks. It won't be because we need perma-AR.
    I was mostly talking about PvE actually, but thanks for patronizing me that much.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  7. #27
    Why did you think a change to the pvp set bonus will apply in pve, or be relevant in any way? This entire thread is about the 4 piece pvp bonus.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    This entire thread is about the 4 piece pvp bonus.
    I think many have skipped that part reading the patch notes and just read "now.. rogues... 150 energy" :3 (no offense to anyone mmkay?)

  9. #29
    Just imagine 150 energy is pve, omg opening burst

  10. #30
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    Just imagine 150 energy is pve, omg opening burst
    Seeing as you need to put up S&D and Rupture in the opening, not too insane really.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  11. #31
    75% reduced mut from stealth > rupture> if proc dispatch> snd> CDs and lolburst, quite insane.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    75% reduced mut from stealth > rupture> if proc dispatch> snd> CDs and lolburst, quite insane.
    Do you play assassination? Mut hits like a noodle and eats 55 energy anyway, almost all your damage comes from venomous wounds, poisons and auto attacks.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  13. #33
    Really dude, the amount of finishers you will be able to throw out at the start is ridic, especially on the bosses you lust on pull with. As it is now with good RNG I will burst around 270 on Lust pulls

    I am not denying that most of the damage comes from passive, but on pull, with that much energy and SB/Vendetta up, pumping out envenoms for that brief period will be substantial damage, and starting with 150-170 energy you likely wont bottom out. Even clipping envenom in this phase is counterbalanced by the amount of finishers you get off, kinda like dagger procs at the end of Cata.

    This is moot, because it won't happen.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Why did you think a change to the pvp set bonus will apply in pve, or be relevant in any way? This entire thread is about the 4 piece pvp bonus.
    well you are correct that it is a pvp set bonus, but I never read the patch notes that a pvp set bonus is not usable in PvE.
    Admitted, raids won't happen in pvp gear, but dungeons sure will.
    You are correct is so many ways, and your knowledge of the class is admirable, but you really need to address the bluntness in which you counter other people, because your point will get through easier if you bring it differently.
    (and I admit I do it sometimes too, so it's not a case of 'i'm right and you're wong')
    Peace !!
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  15. #35
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    Really dude, the amount of finishers you will be able to throw out at the start is ridic, especially on the bosses you lust on pull with. As it is now with good RNG I will burst around 270 on Lust pulls

    I am not denying that most of the damage comes from passive, but on pull, with that much energy and SB/Vendetta up, pumping out envenoms for that brief period will be substantial damage, and starting with 150-170 energy you likely wont bottom out. Even clipping envenom in this phase is counterbalanced by the amount of finishers you get off, kinda like dagger procs at the end of Cata.

    This is moot, because it won't happen.
    Just because I'm poor at letting things go:

    270k burst? Really? If so, I am actually impressed.

    Envenom is not a powerful finisher compared with the length it takes to generate, it's the buff that's important, which is why clipping it is so often frowned upon. 30 extra energy at the start is going to do jack to help you here, it will give you maybe one extra mut over the course of emptying your energy bar. The daggers were insane for assassination due to them not being balanced with assassination after they changed how poisons worked since... who cares, expansion was over - twas glorious.

    Remember, your regen is not dependent on how big your energy bar is, you're going to get yourself energy starved simply 30 energy later on initial pull and that's it, you're staying there with a longer bar to fill again. You could pool higher, but you wouldn't, since right now I only need to pool to around 75-90 to ensure every combo point builder I need to do is during the envenom buff. Pooling high than this just means I'm in danger of eating cps.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  16. #36
    I concede it would not be insane in the way I thought.

    It would help in that opening flurry throwing envenoms out even clipping really gets me up there, but also you need some lottery level RNG to get the dispatches to get the legendary like finisher streak.

    I just dont like our opening so much I fantasise about ways of making it better :P.

    Also the 270k only happens in a blue moon on a lust pull with dispatch permanently lit up!

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