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  1. #1

    How do you stay behind the target in PVE?

    I tried some LFR yesterday for better weapons until I get the pvp daggers and I fount it very hard to stay behind the target for backstab. The bosses' hitboxes are huge and they move and turn around all the time.

    Any tips?

  2. #2
    yeah, change to Assasination .. Sub is for pvp

    Infracted
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-01-01 at 04:39 PM.

  3. #3
    Maybe spec into shadowstep and use it on CD to keep behind, but the boss turning and moving around a lot is something that can't be helped in LFR unless you queue with tanks who don't run around everywhere or fight each other for aggro while standing on opposite sides of the boss.

  4. #4
    High Overlord titcch's Avatar
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    Gregz, it's not really your fault, most of the time in LFR you get inexperienced tanks who constantly move all the time for no reason at all. It's the tanks jobs to keep bosses stable at all times. The melee in my guild would go insane if we had to deal with LFR tanks.
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  5. #5
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titcch View Post
    Gregz, it's not really your fault, most of the time in LFR you get inexperienced tanks who constantly move all the time for no reason at all. It's the tanks jobs to keep bosses stable at all times. The melee in my guild would go insane if we had to deal with LFR tanks.
    ^This really, that's all there is to it

  6. #6
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclekreepy View Post
    yeah, change to Assasination .. Sub is for pvp
    Yeah because everyone plays rogues just for assassination spec. With the changes so far for 5.2 sub and assassination will be competitive with combat lagging behind both. There is nothing wrong with going sub if you can handle it.

    As far as tips go. If your not already using Shadowstep I'd suggest that. Otherwise there's not much you can do beyond talking to the tanks personally and trying to predict movements.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  7. #7
    I've never had any problems staying behind the target no matter what spec?! I guess just keep an eye on the tanks, see where they move and estimate where the boss will be. "behind" the boss is usually a large range and as everybody else said in this thread shadowstep can help you a lot in fights where you have to move around. the alternative to it would be preparation and you really dont need that in lfr, you barely need your defense cooldowns in lfr anyway, so theres no point in being able to reset them.
    ~

  8. #8
    Yep, LFR tanks are horrendous. I typically AFK trash just because it's not worth the headache of trying to keep up with the constant moving.

  9. #9
    Don't stand still. Ever. Get into the habit of hitting A and D during your GCD.

    It's a very good habit if you want to master movement, for any class. Never stop moving.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    Don't stand still. Ever. Get into the habit of hitting A and D during your GCD.

    It's a very good habit if you want to master movement, for any class. Never stop moving.
    This is the best advice you can really take. Learning to adapt to changing situations will help you the most, although:

    Quote Originally Posted by titcch View Post
    Gregz, it's not really your fault, most of the time in LFR you get inexperienced tanks who constantly move all the time for no reason at all. It's the tanks jobs to keep bosses stable at all times. The melee in my guild would go insane if we had to deal with LFR tanks.
    enemies' movement should mostly be very predictable and allow you to be at the boss's back 95% of the time. In the LFR I've seen tanks do all kinds of insane things that drove me nuts.

  11. #11
    It really, really helps to remember that rogues damage depends on being on target rather than hitting the target with our attacks. So we just cannot afford to be off target. It's a sin no matter what the tank's reason for moving, we just have to adjust. I'd say that's just something you get used to with more time on melee. Bear in mind that a lot of problems sort themselves out with more time in dungeons/LFR and just getting "time on the toon."

    Too much movement is absolutely a sign of an inexperienced tank, but you really have to get angry with yourself for not being on target. Situational awareness is just so meaningful in this game and if you're bangin' the air, it's because you lost concentration, and you should give yourself a tsk for it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    Don't stand still. Ever. Get into the habit of hitting A and D during your GCD.
    This really.

    Also if you haven't already, change your A and D keys to strafe left and strafe right. There is never a reason to turn around on the spot and if you ever have to do that you can use your arrow buttons. For both PvE and PvP turn with your mouse.

    Regardless of how bad your tanks are you should always be able to move while you are doing your rotation. In PvP there is no tank tanking the person you are attacking, your target moving around isn't an excuse.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-01-01 at 08:34 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    This really.

    Also if you haven't already, change your A and D keys to strafe left and strafe right. There is never a reason to turn around on the spot and if you ever have to do that you can use your arrow buttons. For both PvE and PvP turn with your mouse.

    Regardless of how bad your tanks are you should always be able to move while you are doing your rotation. In PvP there is no tank tanking the person you are attacking, your target moving around isn't an excuse.
    Thanks for the advice, guys. I've practiced and improved a bit since I posted the thread.

    Bovan, I do strafe with A and D and turn with the mouse. In PVP it's fine since I can run through the enemy player and turn round his back, but in PVE the bosses have such huge hitboxes that I have to run like 10 yards in order to get back in place. It's especially frustrating when the tank turns the boss during shadow dance. Sometimes I lose half of it this way

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    Thanks for the advice, guys. I've practiced and improved a bit since I posted the thread.

    Bovan, I do strafe with A and D and turn with the mouse. In PVP it's fine since I can run through the enemy player and turn round his back, but in PVE the bosses have such huge hitboxes that I have to run like 10 yards in order to get back in place. It's especially frustrating when the tank turns the boss during shadow dance. Sometimes I lose half of it this way
    Oh I was merely giving some general advice, I wasn't saying or implying that you were doing everything wrong or something.

    I get your point and inexperienced tanks are extremely frustrating to deal with as a Subtlety Rogue or Feral Druid. Regarding the hitbox don't forget this huge hitbox comes with advantages as well. You don't have to stand at exactly the edge of the hitbox. You can move a little bit closer to the boss' center as well. This way when your tank does decide there is something shiny on the other side of the room that requires more attention compared to tanking the boss, you don't have to move as much to reach the backside.

    Anyway I hope this was of any help. Don't forget that this is something that mainly comes from experience. The more you do these things the faster you will start to recognize what kind of tanks behave in what ways, and what bosses you need to pay extra attention on and which you don't.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-01-01 at 09:42 PM.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    I tried some LFR yesterday for better weapons until I get the pvp daggers and I fount it very hard to stay behind the target for backstab. The bosses' hitboxes are huge and they move and turn around all the time.

    Any tips?
    Well really melee should learn to be behind target anyway, even without backstab (unless that's changed too while I wasn't paying attention?). From personal experience, I think I've played for so long my rotation is second nature and don't have to think much about it, so can keep running round after the boss even when the lfr tank is waltzing it round the room.

  16. #16
    Let me get this straight, you are a PvP player who asks for tips on how to stay behind a target in PvE? Try doing the same as you do in PvP.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Let me get this straight, you are a PvP player who asks for tips on how to stay behind a target in PvE? Try doing the same as you do in PvP.
    "Yeah, just Kidney Shot him so he/it can not move and shadow dance on him.....and if boss trinket your stun, he will be vunerable to your burst after shadow dance is up..."

    No, really, play as assa or combat, because it seems that tanks in LFR got too much coffee, so they have to drag boss all over instance....If you want a advise for Sub, try to learn when offtank will taunt and where he stand, so you do not spam backstab/ambush to boss face.... If possible, try to get them marked (tanks), so it will be easier for you ( and every melee player) to see where they are....

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Type this into your chat bar and press enter, /script SetCVar("cameraDistanceMax",30)
    Afterwards, zoom out quiet a bit. It helps to be able to actually see that the boss has been turned. Also, always stay strafing. If your guildies don't think you have ADHD from dancing around so much during raids then you are doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
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  19. #19
    The positional requirement of Sub is a nuisance in PVE, always has been. The worst is bosses that target random people for a cast and thus turn to face you in the middle of shad dance. Honestly why Blizzard doesn't at least remove pos reqs during ShD is beyond me... dealing with Backstab is bad enough!

    Moving around is not a specifically Sub issue though, every melee spec needs to glue itself to the boss's hitbox. Random turning and having to swap to adds that often face unpredictable ways are the biggest woes. Not a lot you can do about it really.

  20. #20
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    I tried some LFR yesterday for better weapons until I get the pvp daggers and I fount it very hard to stay behind the target for backstab. The bosses' hitboxes are huge and they move and turn around all the time.

    Any tips?
    don't get me wrong but are you having problems with a boss while you are going to pvp and expect not having that same problem there?
    as others said above lfr tanks are often a pain and its not always worth to do your best in there.
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