Ret and PvP - GC giving us the middle finger.

[ExtremeActionTess]

Another question related to ret PvP, and again Ghostcrawler with the same reply: 'We think they are how they should be'

I don't know what kind of information he pulls out of his ass, but as far as I know most ret paladins I've spoken (including myself) aren't pleased with the current state of PvP, yet GC is trying to keep his ground with the same answer he has given us for the past couple of months.

[Proberly]

it's because GC's anal virginity was taken by a paladin.

Lets keep the discussion on topic and away from comments like this. - Krekko

[Restors]

Ye screw GC for not making paladins overpowered. The fact that Guardians of Ancient kings for retris can't be CCed, just have to try kiting it(hits harder than any guardins ingame), the amount of dmg reduction and the new burst cds is not enough.. Selfhealing is the last step to take to buff so paladins can finally dominate pvp brackets.. /end of sarcasm

[Proberly]

Ye screw GC for not making paladins overpowered. The fact that Guardians of Ancient kings for retris can't be CCed, just have to try kiting it(hits harder than any guardins ingame), the amount of dmg reduction and the new burst cds is not enough.. Selfhealing is the last step to take to buff so paladins can finally dominate pvp brackets.. /end of sarcasm

what are you smoking? rets have never been especially strong, mostly subpar compared to other classes. Apart from 3.0 where they were stupidly OP. There is much that can be done to improve the spec without making it OP.

[Tangra]

it's because GC's anal virginity was taken by a paladin.

Actually, Tom Chilton (Kalagn) is the one that has hated Ret since vanilla. GC's control over the game is vastly exaggerated, balance actually got a bit better after he was hired, but once people calmed down a bit the game went back to the previous hybrid hating.

[Restors]

what are you smoking? rets have never been especially strong, mostly subpar compared to other classes. Apart from 3.0 where they were stupidly OP. There is much that can be done to improve the spec without making it OP.

Blizzard is toning most dps specc's burst dmg.. Once that is done, healing burst will be next in line to get toned. "One class nerf is another class buff". What would be the point of nerfing most dmg burst and yet give retri buffs?

Just be happy you dont have Word of glory on CD anymore.. and dont even think about complaining "i have to spend holy power and that's dps loss" since you can do it whenever you which where DKs can only spend their runic power to selfheal during Lichborne cd (even there it's dps loss for em where they could spend it on Death Coil or frost strike).

All in all, retris gonna be viable class to play with... Amount of CC (2 stuns and disorient), lots of DMG cds and dmg reduction cd.. i really dont see why paladins would like to have a buff..

Or let me guess, your balancing is around 1v1 P.O.V or 2s arenas where you see other comps doing insane dmg?

[Proberly]

Actually, Tom Chilton (Kalagn) is the one that has hated Ret since vanilla. GC's control over the game is vastly exaggerated, balance actually got a bit better after he was hired, but once people calmed down a bit the game went back to the previous hybrid hating.

Yeah, well GC is still notorious for neglecting the ret spec.

Blizzard is toning most dps specc's burst dmg.. Once that is done, healing burst will be next in line to get toned. "One class nerf is another class buff". What would be the point of nerfing most dmg burst and yet give retri buffs?

Just be happy you dont have Word of glory on CD anymore.. and dont even think about complaining "i have to spend holy power and that's dps loss" since you can do it whenever you which where DKs can only spend their runic power to selfheal during Lichborne cd (even there it's dps loss for em where they could spend it on Death Coil or frost strike).

All in all, retris gonna be viable class to play with... Amount of CC (2 stuns and disorient), lots of DMG cds and dmg reduction cd.. i really dont see why paladins would like to have a buff..

Or let me guess, your balancing is around 1v1 P.O.V or 2s arenas where you see other comps doing insane dmg?

I actually liked it when WoG was on a CD. At least I'd heal myself with it. Not poke my hp for 5%

[Tangra]

Ye screw GC for not making paladins overpowered. The fact that Guardians of Ancient kings for retris can't be CCed, just have to try kiting it(hits harder than any guardins ingame), the amount of dmg reduction and the new burst cds is not enough.. Selfhealing is the last step to take to buff so paladins can finally dominate pvp brackets.. /end of sarcasm

Ret hasn't been well represented in high-rated pvp for years, and even then only for a few months at most before nerfs. If you think Ret has a history of being overpowered, you are pathetically ignorant of WoW pvp history.

---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 03:48 PM ----------

Blizzard is toning most dps specc's burst dmg.. Once that is done, healing burst will be next in line to get toned. "One class nerf is another class buff". What would be the point of nerfing most dmg burst and yet give retri buffs?

Just be happy you dont have Word of glory on CD anymore.. and dont even think about complaining "i have to spend holy power and that's dps loss" since you can do it whenever you which where DKs can only spend their runic power to selfheal during Lichborne cd (even there it's dps loss for em where they could spend it on Death Coil or frost strike).

All in all, retris gonna be viable class to play with... Amount of CC (2 stuns and disorient), lots of DMG cds and dmg reduction cd.. i really dont see why paladins would like to have a buff..

Or let me guess, your balancing is around 1v1 P.O.V or 2s arenas where you see other comps doing insane dmg?

It's really cute how you have no clue what you're talking about. Our CC is worse than it was cata.. no clue what "2 stuns" you're talking about... Please stop spamming our forums with your ignorance, and blatant inexperience with Ret pvp.

[Restors]

Blinding Light - Disorient for 6 secs.

Repentance - incapacitating for 8 secs.

Hammer of Justice - Stuns for 6 secs.

So please tell me why paladin's CC are "Worse" than ever? No, I'm not ignorant, i'm all for discussion instead of insults and give me arguements with facts instead of WHY you want a buff and WHAT buff you want when so many classes are gonna get so much massive nerfs in the 5.2 patch notes...

[Garian]

Blizzard is toning most dps specc's burst dmg.. Once that is done, healing burst will be next in line to get toned. "One class nerf is another class buff". What would be the point of nerfing most dmg burst and yet give retri buffs?

Just be happy you dont have Word of glory on CD anymore.. and dont even think about complaining "i have to spend holy power and that's dps loss" since you can do it whenever you which where DKs can only spend their runic power to selfheal during Lichborne cd (even there it's dps loss for em where they could spend it on Death Coil or frost strike).

All in all, retris gonna be viable class to play with... Amount of CC (2 stuns and disorient), lots of DMG cds and dmg reduction cd.. i really dont see why paladins would like to have a buff..

Or let me guess, your balancing is around 1v1 P.O.V or 2s arenas where you see other comps doing insane dmg?

I hate to say this dude, but you have no idea what you are talking about. The PVP Power nerf really hurt ret's healing and rets just spend most of their time being trained to death in arenas now.

Ret is still not viable for rated BGs either.

We have one stun. Repentance is a talent which has a cast time now but no one takes it. Blinding Light requires close range as well.

The only good thing I can take from all this is that warriors and mages won't hurt quite as much in 5.2, but rogues will be everywhere, and ret is already weak versus rogues.


Why do we have to wait 6-8 months in order to play a spec we love?

[Khalahn]

Blinding Light - Disorient for 6 secs.

Repentance - incapacitating for 8 secs.

Hammer of Justice - Stuns for 6 secs.

So please tell me why paladin's CC are "Worse" than ever? No, I'm not ignorant, i'm all for discussion instead of insults and give me arguements with facts instead of WHY you want a buff and WHAT buff you want when so many classes are gonna get so much massive nerfs in the 5.2 patch notes...

Unfortunately, Repentance is a cast time now, which just leaves you open to having Holy locked out (fyi, this is everything that isnt' a weapon strike).

[Riptide]

Blinding Light - Disorient for 6 secs.

Repentance - incapacitating for 8 secs.

Hammer of Justice - Stuns for 6 secs.

So please tell me why paladin's CC are "Worse" than ever? No, I'm not ignorant, i'm all for discussion instead of insults and give me arguements with facts instead of WHY you want a buff and WHAT buff you want when so many classes are gonna get so much massive nerfs in the 5.2 patch notes...

only holy takes repentance, the ranged snare or shorter cd/added range on foj is better. All of our survivability and utility are able to be countered. You can AMS, cloak and a just about every other defensive ability and not have a counter for it. Did I mention our utility is all easily countered in any comp? How about the fact we are balanced on healing as part of our survivability, yet were not compensated at all with the blanket healing and pvp power nerfs.

There's simply nothing desirable about ret from your 2 teammates that they couldn't use any other melee and have it be a better and more reliable option. Not to mention your personal survivability shouldn't be negated because of your ability to throw out dispellable buffs.

On top of all of this our healing wasn't even that great considering the ramp up and the trade off in damage. Warlocks do more healing now and guess what? It's self healing. Throw in healthstones and lol. Yet we seem to be severely penalized for being a hybrid with less practical utility than pures.


Basically, stop playing devil's advocate until you have a clue.


As for the OP. This is an old tweet. From his more recent ones I get the impression he realizes there is an issue with ret.

[Randoomer]

So because Repentance is a cast time, which means you risk being locked out makes it not a form of CC? Ok ...

[Garian]

So because Repentance is a cast time, which means you risk being locked out makes it not a form of CC? Ok ...

It's a CC that you can never cast.

Yeah it's awesome.

[kosechi]

Blinding Light - Disorient for 6 secs.

Repentance - incapacitating for 8 secs.

Hammer of Justice - Stuns for 6 secs.

So please tell me why paladin's CC are "Worse" than ever? No, I'm not ignorant, i'm all for discussion instead of insults and give me arguements with facts instead of WHY you want a buff and WHAT buff you want when so many classes are gonna get so much massive nerfs in the 5.2 patch notes...

Dispellable
Dispellable
Dispellable

can't do that while silenced
can't do that while silenced
can't do that while silenced

ret doesn't really take repentance, only holy does. ret's capacity for instant cc hasn't really changed at all since wolk, we have 2 weak instant instant ccs, one is just aoe now.

[Tangra]

Blinding Light - Disorient for 6 secs.

Repentance - incapacitating for 8 secs.

Hammer of Justice - Stuns for 6 secs.

So please tell me why paladin's CC are "Worse" than ever? No, I'm not ignorant, i'm all for discussion instead of insults and give me arguements with facts instead of WHY you want a buff and WHAT buff you want when so many classes are gonna get so much massive nerfs in the 5.2 patch notes...

Repent is now a talent geared mostly at Holy Paladins, it now has a cast time, which is obviously difficult for a melee to use, also repent is not a stun, you corrected yourself in your second post at least: sorry to be picky, but you can't mix the two terms up in a serious discussion of pvp.

We also now have to pick between Repent and Improved Hammer of Justice (now Fist of Justice), before we could have both. So in reality:

Repentance is now barely usable, and mutually exclusive with with Imp HoJ. Blinding Light has a joke of a range; to CC a healer he would have to be an idiot and let you get close to him, or if he got so close to your target: a cc that breaks on damage and requires melee range is complete crap for a melee dps, and much better for a healer or ranged dps.

All of the changes to Paladin CC in MoP made Holy Paladins amazing, while keeping Ret CC the same at best, but probably slightly worse. Both Repent and Blinding Light are made for Holy Paladins.

[yurano]

It's a CC that you can never cast.

Yeah it's awesome.

So polymorph, fear, cyclone, entangling roots are not legitimate forms of CC.

Dispellable

can't do that while silenced

And having their CCs dispelled or silenced is unique to Paladins? By the way, DKs and Feral Druids lose CCs when silenced. If your opponents are silencing a Ret Paladin, they're gonna have a bad time.

Blinding Light has a joke of a range; to CC a healer he would have to be an idiot and let you get close to him, or if he got so close to your target: a cc that breaks on damage and requires melee range is complete crap for a melee dps, and much better for a healer or ranged dps.

Blinding Light is extremely useful as a defensive cooldown. You just HoF up to the healer with melee sitting on your ass and you pop that shit. Both players GG while you cold cast Flash of Light on yourself. This is a common tactic used by any CC bomb capable class. Melee players are just inexperienced with the tactic.

I'm not saying Ret Paladins aren't weak. I'm saying the CC criticisms are unfounded. The only thing Ret Paladins need is some sort of self heal (like a weak Second Wind) and they're set.

[Garian]

So polymorph, fear, cyclone, entangling roots are not legitimate forms of CC.

Is this a joke?

Poly can be cast really fast but ok I'll give you that one for high end arena.

Fear and cyclone can be instant.


Now let's go down the list:

Instant Ring of Frost
Deep Freeze
Charge
Shockwave
Disrupting shout
Warrior/priest fear
Priest pet that fears
etc etc etc


The 30 second HoJ is simply better than repentance because you don't need to cast the former whereas the latter can be easily shut down.



I'll never understand the hatred for ret. Anyone with eyes can see that it's not in good shape now.

[Tangra]

So polymorph, fear, cyclone, entangling roots are not legitimate forms of CC.



And having their CCs dispelled or silenced is unique to Paladins? By the way, DKs and Feral Druids lose CCs when silenced. If your opponents are silencing a Ret Paladin, they're gonna have a bad time.



Blinding Light is extremely useful as a defensive cooldown. You just HoF up to the healer with melee sitting on your ass and you pop that shit. Both players GG while you cold cast Flash of Light on yourself. This is a common tactic used by any CC bomb capable class. Melee players are just inexperienced with the tactic.

I'm not saying Ret Paladins aren't weak. I'm saying the CC criticisms are unfounded. The only thing Ret Paladins need is some sort of self heal (like a weak Second Wind) and they're set.

Rofl, do you have any idea how much Flash of Light heals for? 5-8% of our health maybe. A CC maneuver that let's you heal your self for maybe 15% of your health every 2 min is barely worth mentioning.

[kosechi]

So polymorph, fear, cyclone, entangling roots are not legitimate forms of CC.

all these abilities come with instant cast variations. repentance does not.

And having their CCs dispelled or silenced is unique to Paladins? By the way, DKs and Feral Druids lose CCs when silenced. If your opponents are silencing a Ret Paladin, they're gonna have a bad time.

depends on the dk actually, my dk is perfectly capable of ccing while silenced because his cc is based on his pet. i'm fairly sure feral druids can cyclone while silenced, PS is however dispellable. please get your facts right.

silencing ret paladins is a very good way to counter their defensives as it locks them out of their snare breaks and their defensive cooldowns. if you can't land a CS on a healer, but are trying to pressure a ret silencing them is a very viable stratagy.

Blinding Light is extremely useful as a defensive cooldown. You just HoF up to the healer with melee sitting on your ass and you pop that shit. Both players GG while you cold cast Flash of Light on yourself. This is a common tactic used by any CC bomb capable class. Melee players are just inexperienced with the tactic.

you really don't understand how one sets up cc chains do you....

just because i can HoF up to a healer doesn't mean that healer isn't going to pillar away from me, have me cced, ground it, ect...