1. #1
    Stood in the Fire High Priestess Ishanah's Avatar
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    Prediction: Forsaken/Sylvanas vs Garrosh will be the best storyline of the expac

    just calling this early. As nice as its been to see Garrosh butt heads with Lor'themar and Baine and Vol'jin, no leader has held TRUE contempt for the guy like Sylvanas. not because of ethics or anything, but because Garrosh is simply too unsubtle and stupid.

    Considering they're both villains at this point, Sylvanas/Forsaken turning against Garrosh will be an amazing plot. Lor'themar, Vol'jin and Baine all have very good and 'heroic' reasons to want Garrosh gone, rooted in concern for their people and the Horde (or just his people in lor'themar's case, but whatevs) but Sylvanas is different. this is evil vs evil, and that has potential to be cool and refreshing.

    How they handle this story could make or break it as the best conflict of MoP.

  2. #2
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    They both aren't evil, so I don't see what you are saying.
    Garrosh's storyline still has to get to the point where he becomes evil.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenosege View Post
    just calling this early. As nice as its been to see Garrosh butt heads with Lor'themar and Baine and Vol'jin, no leader has held TRUE contempt for the guy like Sylvanas. not because of ethics or anything, but because Garrosh is simply too unsubtle and stupid.

    Considering they're both villains at this point, Sylvanas/Forsaken turning against Garrosh will be an amazing plot. Lor'themar, Vol'jin and Baine all have very good and 'heroic' reasons to want Garrosh gone, rooted in concern for their people and the Horde (or just his people in lor'themar's case, but whatevs) but Sylvanas is different. this is evil vs evil, and that has potential to be cool and refreshing.

    How they handle this story could make or break it as the best conflict of MoP.
    Totally agree.

    Sylvanas stands out from the other leaders because she really isn't that far off from Garrosh as far as committing war crimes goes. It would be a pretty heavy blow to Garrosh's reputation to have someone like Sylvanas condemn him.

    He has shown before, in Edge of Night and what not, that he really only views he forsaken as unnatural fodder. Garrosh, if and when he summons the forsaken to Pandaria, will almost certainly use them only as troops sent to die/inflict damage before dying.

    I think, this time around, Garrosh will be the one wanting to use the plague, and Sylvanas will be the one to refuse him. I mean, it wouldn't be a stretch of her character. She wouldn't suddenly turn good, it would be better for her to side with the Ally/Rebels because if she does side with Garrosh and they do win, Garrosh would almost instantly have the Forsaken exterminated.

    This could all make for great story telling across both factions (maybe Sylvanas could actually be forced to plead to Vareesa?)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 03:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    They both aren't evil, so I don't see what you are saying.
    Garrosh's storyline still has to get to the point where he becomes evil.
    5.1 climax.

    There is no going back for him from that point forward. He has shown he is willing to turn his people into legit monsters in order to win the war.

  4. #4
    I want to see Forsaken snap and slaughter/possess the orcs in Undercity and start full scale rebelion, thus inspiring those that still doubt (like weak trolls and tauren).

  5. #5
    It'd be interesting to see how Sylvanas plans to deal with Garrosh. I'm betting it will differ greatly from Vol'jin/Thrall/Varian's ideas. Want to see if Vol'jin or Thrall will sacrifice a little honour to do things the forsaken way.

  6. #6
    Grunt
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    I reckon Baine/Thrall/Sylvanas/Vol'Jin and Lor'Themar will bring him down. But, I reckon it will also relate to Grom Hellscream being in Garrosh's mind or something like that. Guess we just have to wait and see

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenosege View Post
    but because Garrosh is simply too unsubtle and stupid.
    Garrosh stupid?

    He's many things, but not stupid.

    Sylvanas thinks he's stupid, but in terms of military success Sylvanas made a few mistakes (Gilneas Invasion, keeping a Dreadlord as Majordomo, just to name a few)

    Theramore was a terrible crime, but it's pretty much a huge blow to the Alliance.


    And before anyone brings up this "TWILIGHT HIGHLANDS INVASION LOL":

    Do you honestly think that Deathwing and an entire Flight of grown Twilight Dragons would fly randomnly into the Horde Fleet?
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2013-01-01 at 03:32 PM.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Theramore was a terrible crime, but he pretty much but was a huge blow to the Alliance.
    People still think it was his idea?

  9. #9
    I'd like it to go this way:

    Garrosh eventually learns of the rebellion brewing up. But he can't risk civil war, so he decides to make a show of his power, to subjugate the Horde with fear, by destroying the first Horde group that denied his orders. A small group, but somewhat important (if only for their ties to Thrall and what he represents). The Frostwolves. They refused the call to arms, issued by Cromush. Not the Forsaken, but Garrosh's commander in the region. And Cromush promised to inform Warchief of their treason. Trolls? Tauren? They may dislike Garrosh's ways, they may talk behind his back, but they still follow his orders. Vol'jin may be an exception with his "Lol I'm gonna kill ya mon", but even he followed Garrosh's orders, all the way to his mission in the Veiled Stairs. And all he did inside was just commenting on the fact that Horde isn't about creating mindless slaves, not refusing to do anything particular. The Kor'kron in the scenario were a bit trigger-happy.

    So, Frostwolves. Garrosh would order Forsaken to cull them to prove their worth. Besides, Trolls are under surveillance (or so Garrosh thinks) and other Horde races are already in Pandaria. Sylvannas "happily" obliges. After all she most likely desires Alterac for herself. But she uses Undercity's Kor'kron they way Garrosh used Forsaken in Gilneas. Or she orders the Forsaken to kill them afterwards. And this triggers the rebellion's uprising. Sylvannas blames Frostwolf massacre on the Kor'kron, and excuses herself to other rebels about killing said Kor'kron by pointing out their recent psychosis and total obedience to Garrosh.

    So we will have all other Horde leaders united and the open rebellion AND the traitorous Frostwolves finally eradicated (should have been done in Cataclysm). Two birds with one stone.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinyScout View Post
    I suggest we remove mounts, and instead opt to use a similar system. Because of the cataclysm, every single character starts out with a broken spine, and so is completely paralyzed from the waist down. This means you need to get by with only your arms for movement, reducing movement speed by 90% of normal running speed. At 60, you can pay a fee of 5000 gold for a bitchin' Drek'thar brand wheelchair, increasing your speed to 50% of normal speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Hey Elsa, do you wanna build a strawmaaaan?

  10. #10
    would be perfect to see garrosh come out carrying sylvanas head in his hands.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Garrosh stupid?

    He's many things, but not stupid.

    Sylvanas thinks he's stupid, but in terms of military success Sylvanas made a few mistakes (Gilneas Invasion, keeping a Dreadlord as Majordomo, just to name a few)

    Theramore was a terrible crime, but it's pretty much a huge blow to the Alliance.


    And before anyone brings up this "TWILIGHT HIGHLANDS INVASION LOL":

    Do you honestly think that Deathwing and an entire Flight of grown Twilight Dragons would fly randomnly into the Horde Fleet?
    Gilneas invasion was Garrosh's idea. And he was the one using idiotic tactics at the beginning of it (when Sylvanas was in Icecrown) and later handicapping it with his supervisors and his rules. And when the main Worgen force escaped he pulled almost all support, leaving only one commander and a bunch of useless drunks.

    And Varimarthars, while keeping him was rather mistaken, had his uses. Wasn't it for him and his spies, the Forsaken blight would not exist. Of course he did that most likely with his coup in mind, but the blight proved crucial in Forsaken's war for Lordaeron.

    And no, Deathwing didn't randomly fly in Horde's air fleet. But that's exactly the point. He waited for the air support to leave for a reason. And as a side note, if memory serves me right, Garrosh even excused himself later, saying the Alliance fleet attacked them.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinyScout View Post
    I suggest we remove mounts, and instead opt to use a similar system. Because of the cataclysm, every single character starts out with a broken spine, and so is completely paralyzed from the waist down. This means you need to get by with only your arms for movement, reducing movement speed by 90% of normal running speed. At 60, you can pay a fee of 5000 gold for a bitchin' Drek'thar brand wheelchair, increasing your speed to 50% of normal speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Hey Elsa, do you wanna build a strawmaaaan?

  12. #12
    Brewmaster
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    Yeah Garrosh will obviously kill silvanaz during the next raid so hopefully there wont be anymore talk about that ugly being.

    As for the forsaken they need arthas to be brought back and lead them, as neutral faction or as *horde* ( not really following the upcoming warchief which will be Vol'Jin ).

  13. #13
    Silvanas? looks like Vol'jin will be the one
    PS: Silvanas is over rated, i hope Garrosh brakes her neck and kills her at one of the raid fights
    finally stop all dem silvanas costumes at blizzcon costume contest.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Gilneas invasion was Garrosh's idea. And he was the one using idiotic tactics at the beginning of it (when Sylvanas was in Icecrown) and later handicapping it with his supervisors and his rules. And when the main Worgen force escaped he pulled almost all support, leaving only one commander and a bunch of useless drunks.
    Sylvanas didn't seem all to successful with Gilneas Invasion as well, didn't she?

    Especially since she made the same mistake as with Varimathras, which ended this time with a bullet in her back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    And Varimarthars, while keeping him was rather mistaken, had his uses. Wasn't it for him and his spies, the Forsaken blight would not exist. Of course he did that most likely with his coup in mind, but the blight proved crucial in Forsaken's war for Lordaeron.
    The Forsaken Blight is a good thing now? As far as i know anything that this thing has been used was bad stuff.

    As far as i can see that blight has been used 3 times now:

    1.Wrathgate
    2.At the end of Worgen Storyline of Gilneas
    3.Destruction of Southshore

    Now, since Wrathgate falls clearly under "not so intended use", the blight didn't really help to conquer Gilneas, as the majority simply retreated and came back with reinforcements.

    And the destruction of Southshore, bombing a town that been pretty much cut off reinforcements and anything.

    And considering the Battle of the Undercity and it's consequences go 100% to Varimathras, which is ironically one those things that brought Thrall to the conclusion that Garrosh could be that what the Horde needs.

    And Varimathras used his Forsaken Agents for his own agenda all along.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Infiltrator_Marksen

    This guy has been part of a Vanilla quest chain where two Forsaken guys in Duskwood were discovered by this Human and learned some secrets about them, those 2 Forsaken stated that they were sent by Varimathras.

    Obviously this guy has found evidence for Varimathras colossal betrayal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    And no, Deathwing didn't randomly fly in Horde's air fleet. But that's exactly the point. He waited for the air support to leave for a reason. And as a side note, if memory serves me right, Garrosh even excused himself later, saying the Alliance fleet attacked them.
    Never heard that Garrosh said the Alliance fleet attacked them, also i doubt that the Air Support would have made any difference, Deathwing & bunch of Twilight Dragons would have still destroyed this fleet.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

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