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  1. #21
    The boss appears in front of where the target is facing, that's it. The trick to that is that his location is set a few seconds before the attack hits, so you really can't be moving around until the last second. You have to get in your spot in front of the raid, and face forward well before the strike.

    As long as the raid stand on a stack point, and the target is ahead 3 yards facing forward, you will be ok every time.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    This is absurdly confusing. I have a vague idea of what you might mean.. So you're saying that the mechanic essentially is that the boss walks towards the target in stealth, and then strikes from whichever direction that person is from him - with no regard to where that person is facing? So if he targets a ranged, and that target doesnt move, he will walk towards them and strike outward away from the group?
    Yes, that's exactly how it works. Simply stacking on the target can EASILY result in people not taking the damage but still being "stacked".

    It should always be RAID--->Unseen Target<-Boss. If you do that every time EVERYONE will always get hit and you will NEVER bug it out. You don't need to be far from the unseen target but the range is 20 yards or so on the cleave so simply shooting for 5 yards beyond the target allows you much more reliable strategy and unseen strike damage.

    If you try to move around expecting him to always face you and swing in that direction you're going to have unnecessary wipes to glitches with the mechanic, such as being near walls or turning too much. With the number one problem being people still moving right before the strike, trying to make it hit some predetermined stack point.

    Btw if you don't believe the facing part, next time melee/tanks get it have the raid get to their backs and them walk to where the boss was before the unseen strike. I promise the boss will face the raid as usual, but strike the other side and kill the target.
    Last edited by Riptide; 2013-01-03 at 06:19 PM.

  3. #23
    Its not that I don't believe you about how the mechanic works, its just that there is nothing buggy about stacking. People are just bad at it and THINK they're stacked and then blame a poor mechanic. When we have people die because not everyone stacked, I can clearly see that they're a foot or two away from everyone else. Regardless, because its a consistent problem, we may have to consider a different approach such as yours - so I'm trying to fully understand your method.

    Theoretically, if a melee were to be targetted, the boss would stealth, turn towards that melee, and then hit him from the front, correct? So then do you have the raid move behind that melee?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Its not that I don't believe you about how the mechanic works, its just that there is nothing buggy about stacking. People are just bad at it and THINK they're stacked and then blame a poor mechanic. When we have people die because not everyone stacked, I can clearly see that they're a foot or two away from everyone else. Regardless, because its a consistent problem, we may have to consider a different approach such as yours - so I'm trying to fully understand your method.

    Theoretically, if a melee were to be targetted, the boss would stealth, turn towards that melee, and then hit him from the front, correct? So then do you have the raid move behind that melee?
    Being able to successfully stack 10 raid members EXACTLY on top of each other in the matter of a few seconds seems a bit difficult. The cleave has a big range so having everyone behind the target seems like the easier approach in the time span you have. But maybe that's just me.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Being able to successfully stack 10 raid members EXACTLY on top of each other in the matter of a few seconds seems a bit difficult. The cleave has a big range so having everyone behind the target seems like the easier approach in the time span you have. But maybe that's just me.
    But if the mechanic is as he says, it has nothing to do with whether you're behind that person.

    For the record, I'm pretty confident that his location is set behind you when you're stunned and he attacks towards your position at that point. Mechanically, that's the only thing that makes much sense.

  6. #26
    I'm confused as hell about this too. Here is an interesting diagram but I can't make 100% sense from it, maybe you guys can help:



    So assuming ranged are spread on the top/left part of the diagram and boss is being tanked on blue, am I right to assume that the cone will always face south/right as in the diagram? I am assuming that whichever ranged get targeted will simply run forward to blue (no turning).

    If that's the case, does it mean that everyone should be a bit *after* the blue mark where the targeted person would be (i.e. a few steps south/right)?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Its not that I don't believe you about how the mechanic works, its just that there is nothing buggy about stacking. People are just bad at it and THINK they're stacked and then blame a poor mechanic. When we have people die because not everyone stacked, I can clearly see that they're a foot or two away from everyone else. Regardless, because its a consistent problem, we may have to consider a different approach such as yours - so I'm trying to fully understand your method.

    Theoretically, if a melee were to be targetted, the boss would stealth, turn towards that melee, and then hit him from the front, correct? So then do you have the raid move behind that melee?
    It does matter if you're behind them though and if you do it the way I suggest, you'll always be facing the boss. I don't see what you're getting at? All I'm saying is if you're in the boss' hitbox when he's stealthed he will hit the other side of you, not the raid that's standing behind you. But if you do
    ----Raid-->unseen target<--Boss-- it will always achieve what you expect perfectly stacking to do.

    If it's the melee or tank they move back a couple steps they do not change their facing at all and everyone gets behind them. Stacking on the person is unnecessary and as Nightzero said it takes too much time. There is plenty of leeway in being hit providing you're behind the target.

    Perhaps I'm giving you the impression that we have the raid spread out behind the person, that's not really the case. We are just loosely grouped behind the player. Stacking on the person also brings latency into the equation, they will see one thing while you see another. Similar to you always thinking you're the fastest person out of the gates in a BG.

    Anyway it's like this ranged/healers evenly split on the outside of the room while the boss/melee are between the stairs on each side in the middle of the runway. Unseen in 6, which is after a windstep meaning the ranged/healers can all move to the stairs on each side. Soon as unseen target goes out the ranged/healers can move in. Do not move in earlier because if tempest slash is due to hit right before or after the unseen timer, he'll do that first and you'll end up with tornadoes in the runway. Obviously, if you're not the target of the tempest slash feel free to get closer but you should be able to get behind anyone that is the unseen target if you're all on the runway/bottom of stairs.

    If the ranged/healer are the target you almost always end up stacking on the stairs while they are just off the bottom of the stairs since they shouldn't run forward too much.
    Last edited by Riptide; 2013-01-03 at 11:54 PM.

  8. #28
    Regarding Unseen Strike: Just watch some hunter PoV kills on youtube and you'll see exactly how Unseen Strike works, the boss doesn't fully disappear for hunters due to Hunter's Mark, instead he'll appear semi-transparent (like hunters look during carmouflage). He walks towards the raidmember just like a normal mob would and just strikes after a few seconds, so you could turn him etc.

    We just have everyone run to the boss on Unseen Strike, that way the Boss doesn't move and we know exactly which direction he'll look.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ccKep View Post
    Regarding Unseen Strike: Just watch some hunter PoV kills on youtube and you'll see exactly how Unseen Strike works, the boss doesn't fully disappear for hunters due to Hunter's Mark, instead he'll appear semi-transparent (like hunters look during carmouflage). He walks towards the raidmember just like a normal mob would and just strikes after a few seconds, so you could turn him etc.

    We just have everyone run to the boss on Unseen Strike, that way the Boss doesn't move and we know exactly which direction he'll look.
    Awesome call on that one. He basically waits a second, charges to that person, and then follows them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 09:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
    It does matter if you're behind them though and if you do it the way I suggest, you'll always be facing the boss. I don't see what you're getting at? All I'm saying is if you're in the boss' hitbox when he's stealthed he will hit the other side of you, not the raid that's standing behind you. But if you do
    ----Raid-->unseen target<--Boss-- it will always achieve what you expect perfectly stacking to do.

    If it's the melee or tank they move back a couple steps they do not change their facing at all and everyone gets behind them. Stacking on the person is unnecessary and as Nightzero said it takes too much time. There is plenty of leeway in being hit providing you're behind the target.

    Perhaps I'm giving you the impression that we have the raid spread out behind the person, that's not really the case. We are just loosely grouped behind the player. Stacking on the person also brings latency into the equation, they will see one thing while you see another. Similar to you always thinking you're the fastest person out of the gates in a BG.

    Anyway it's like this ranged/healers evenly split on the outside of the room while the boss/melee are between the stairs on each side in the middle of the runway. Unseen in 6, which is after a windstep meaning the ranged/healers can all move to the stairs on each side. Soon as unseen target goes out the ranged/healers can move in. Do not move in earlier because if tempest slash is due to hit right before or after the unseen timer, he'll do that first and you'll end up with tornadoes in the runway. Obviously, if you're not the target of the tempest slash feel free to get closer but you should be able to get behind anyone that is the unseen target if you're all on the runway/bottom of stairs.

    If the ranged/healer are the target you almost always end up stacking on the stairs while they are just off the bottom of the stairs since they shouldn't run forward too much.
    My concern was with getting there in time, mostly, but if you have people move in then yeah i guess its not an issue. Plus your way allows everyone to be punted out to the middle and not get hit by tornadoes which is nice.

  10. #30
    you can cut down the knockbacks you have by stacking for unseen strike at the base of the stairs (where the boss is standing) , as the stairs act as line of site in this fight. this is good to get some extra damage in early before you have to move the boss again

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    He basically waits a second, charges to that person, and then follows them.
    Unseen Strike Data actually tells you exactly what he does.

    - The buff lasts 5secs and "every 5secs" (which is essentially just once at the end of the duration) he'll inflict this spell (note it requires Melee Range), which inflicts damage according to the difficulty and causes a knockback
    - He increases his runspeed by 200%
    - He triggers this spell, which causes him to fixate on a target
    - He triggers this spell, which causes his invisibiltiy level to increase (by 10.000, for comparision: The mage talent Greater Invisibility causes invisbility to increase by 340 and Invisibility Potion grants 200)

    What'd be interesting is what happens if you'd time Transendence (Monk), Blink (Mage), Demonic Circle / Gateway (Warlock) or Shadowstep (Rogue) so that his 5s buff expires and he's out of range of his target... Maybe I'll give that a few shots in my alt raid
    Last edited by ccKep; 2013-01-04 at 04:05 AM.

  12. #32
    How do you exactly deal with the debuff? We 3 heal it (Disc Priest, Monk and Shaman), but right now we lose the debuff person. Usually when the boss does his tempest, our prot paladin is casting hand of purity so we can negate most of the debuff, but it starts to hurt a lot and our priest seems to die everytime she gets it, despite probably healing herself.

    I tried to focus that target as a monk, but then the tanks started dying.

    You can see our best attempt here, then again, way to many deaths to that.. We usually have a warrior who helps with rallying cry, etc.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10728&e=11044

    We fixed pretty much every other aspect of phase 1, we used to have issues with unseen strike until somebody told me "stack on tank at max melee ranged and you will be fine", and that worked like a charm, and we fixed our tornado positionning as well by going with a better path than we used to. We already went to phase 2 on another night, but right now our issue is really the debuff.

    I am assuming we'll have to use cooldowns on the debuff target after the boss reaches 50% every time, including paladin swapping hand of purity for clemency, maybe spirit link totem, life cocoon and pain suppression.. or should be simply assign heals better?!

  13. #33
    The Patient
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    This boss is really easy. For Unseen Strike stack ontop of the guy who has it and everyone will take damage. For every other one of them you'll have your disc priest using Spirit Shell so nobody should take any damage at all if your priest is doing it right.

    HoP the debuffs or just heal through them. Have 3 healers, if there's no HoPs left for the debuffs, have 1 healer dedicate to that person. Just tank the boss in the middle of the room the whole fight.

    So, basically nothing is different from normal. >_> We killed the boss in 14 pulls on our progression when there wasn't even any info out on the boss.

  14. #34
    The Patient Navoan's Avatar
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    For Wind Step just some things to remember, never use CDs to survive the first one (even if it's on a mage/priest etc) there is nothing else going on and it's easy to heal though. Save the Hand of Purity for the US or tempest as that's when healers are moving and can't heal as effectively.

    Whenever your healer gets WS Hand of Protection them, if your Mage gets it just Ice Block immediately. If you're running with a resto druid ensure they symbiosis the mage (for Ice Block). Whoever gets WS should have their own personal CDs, they should save these for the WS/Tempest too. Anyone with WS should also remember to stay in range of at least two healers (we have only ever 2-healed this on HC so being out of range meant they died).

    We have two pallies in our raid and have actually stopped using purities, we take the 2xHoProtection's and use it whenever necessary or when healers/mage (with no IB) etc get WS. We have never really had problems 2-Healing.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Uhh... Purgatory works the same, you need to be healed for a certain amount during the 3s in order to live.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114556
    I dont know, but our blood DK soaks alone sometimes with purgatory in 10 man altraids atleast.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    I dont know, but our blood DK soaks alone sometimes with purgatory in 10 man altraids atleast.
    With what? 10 lay on hands? How would he get 3 million healing in 3 seconds?

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  17. #37
    All I can say is, if you are stacking up at MT during unseen strike, and only a few get hit sometimes, then you aren't stacking properly.

    The person who is marked for the unseen strike also get stunned shortly before it happens. Could be he's sometimes not close enough for every one to get hit.

    Also, have your paladin spec into hand of purity and use it on player with the dot during every unseen strike.

    If people die to the dot debuff during any other time of the encounter, it's basically healers fault, or that player going way out of range for heals. So if you have problems with that, make sure your healers are doing it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccKep View Post
    What'd be interesting is what happens if you'd time Transendence (Monk), Blink (Mage), Demonic Circle / Gateway (Warlock) or Shadowstep (Rogue) so that his 5s buff expires and he's out of range of his target... Maybe I'll give that a few shots in my alt raid
    What happens then is, the person with the mark will take the full hit, as he gets stunned 1-2 sec before the strike happens.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2013-01-04 at 11:06 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    What happens then is, the person with the mark will take the full hit, as he gets stunned 1-2 sec before the strike happens.
    blink removes stuns, not sure about the other spells but it should work if you time it right

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ccKep View Post
    What'd be interesting is what happens if you'd time Transendence (Monk), Blink (Mage), Demonic Circle / Gateway (Warlock) or Shadowstep (Rogue) so that his 5s buff expires and he's out of range of his target... Maybe I'll give that a few shots in my alt raid
    We used to have mages blink if they got it. What would happen is he would face towards where they blinked (or maybe it was towards the tank) and would still do the unseen strike.
    This would occasionally cause problems of someone standing nearby and getting gibbed. Also did not seem like the mages could reliably blink away, sometimes they would get stunned and wouldn't be able to blink.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    I dont know, but our blood DK soaks alone sometimes with purgatory in 10 man altraids atleast.
    Got any logs to prove that? Even with capped Blood Shield and IBF, that's still a large overkill to heal in 3 seconds.

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