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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by aistee View Post
    Isen SWTOR the second biggest MMORPG on the market?
    Globally, absolutely not, especially if we're including F2P MMO's and their current active users. Aion exceeds it in size, so do a number of other Asian MMO's. If we're talking about the Western Market only, then the numbers get far more hazy.

  2. #142
    When you make a "story mmo" this will always happen, it was going to fail from the start everyone with any sense knew this. If you want a story then go read a book simple.

  3. #143
    no wories , disney will make a sw game when the movie comes out and just like all their movie games it will be awefull.
    You'll be happy with bioware and EA after that game

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Globally, absolutely not, especially if we're including F2P MMO's and their current active users. Aion exceeds it in size, so do a number of other Asian MMO's. If we're talking about the Western Market only, then the numbers get far more hazy.
    Hmm... You got any source on this? mmodata.net claims you are right, but this data is from August. xfire com says swtor is second most played game. I'm not saying you are wrong though.

  5. #145
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aistee View Post
    Hmm... You got any source on this? mmodata.net claims you are right, but this data is from August. xfire com says swtor is second most played game. I'm not saying you are wrong though.
    Oh lord. Here comes another 'we don't have sub numbers so this game is probably bigger than everything in the world...except maybe wow' posters. Don't you dare try to prove me otherwise because you have no reliable data!


    People playing aren't indicative of quality of game or personal preference. It's common knowledge this game is vastly smaller than it was, which places it in the comfortable niche of just about every other game out there. It shouldn't really matter until the doors close.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by aistee View Post
    Hmm... You got any source on this? mmodata.net claims you are right, but this data is from August. xfire com says swtor is second most played game. I'm not saying you are wrong though.
    Xfire is an "ok" gauge for determining a games current popularity, but only extends to a very small segment of dedicated players and isn't a very effective tool for determining the overall success/population of a game.

    My source is a mixture of various press releases/announcements over the years, numbers from earnings calls, monitoring of announcements (i.e. SWTOR's lack of a momentum release post-transition), and a few other tidbits. Unfortunately I keep this all in my head rather than doing something useful like putting it all together with proper links to sources : /

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by aistee View Post
    Hmm... You got any source on this? mmodata.net claims you are right, but this data is from August. xfire com says swtor is second most played game. I'm not saying you are wrong though.
    Xfire? Really? It might be the second most played of people that use Xfire..

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    If you don't see any improvement from Eternity Vault to Asation I can't believe you actually played each of them.

    What about sniper/ sorcerer/ assassins?... You kinda left them out in your summary which leaves 1-2 classes which are less beneficial to ranked warzones (still viable in random warzones as the amount of bad player negates them.

    Agree with you Psychlon, the game is actually good in both PVP and PVE. I think a lot of people bash the game and haven't actually given it a good go or they read somewhere that there is no end game and just repeat it even if it's not true. The OPs and FPs added since launch have all been top quality and anyone saying otherwise it flat out lying.

    I like how everyone also QQs about the OP specs and then lists 6 or so classes out of 8....seems like that's a good thing that a lot of specs are actually good. There will always be FOTM specs in MMOs, but so far I've found that they are generally overhyped by bad players QQing. Look at the Powertech QQ, they have the worst defense in the game but yet people QQ'd continuously instead of working out how to fight them.

    There are still a few bugs especially with F2P and the cartel market, but I don't use it much so it has very little impact on my enjoyment of the game.

  9. #149
    It will never happen, and even if it does there won't most likely be the major investment needed to significantly overhaul the game. FXIV is pretty much the only MMO ever to have gone through that route. What most likely is going to happen is BioWare slowly milking the people still playing this while maintaining maintenance mode level developer staff, ie. what they are doing right now.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chaos View Post
    When you make a "story mmo" this will always happen, it was going to fail from the start everyone with any sense knew this. If you want a story then go read a book simple.
    The whole reason i play games is for the story its one of the most important factors to me and i can't be the only one, being the listener/reader should never be limited to books and TV taking that away from games would only dumb them down. SWTOR was never in trouble due to its story, in-fact its one of the strong points, stating that games will fail because they have a story is just stupid.

  11. #151
    Brewmaster Lora's Avatar
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    It makes me sad that SWTOR has taken the route of SWG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    I have a nuclear bomb. Once I detonate it, I'm shit cause I only got that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by bobo333 View Post
    i'm 6ft2, 30 years old, pretty fit and much stronger than your average 10 year old. even though i totally could, i don't go around punching ten year olds

  12. #152
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toccs View Post
    The whole reason i play games is for the story its one of the most important factors to me and i can't be the only one
    You aren't, but over time in a genre, other factors start to vastly outweigh whatever story is there. Especially if the story is maybe 5% of the overall package. There are several games that have 'no story' that are ravenously consumed by a mass of people. Look at Minecraft or Terraria. You pretty much are the story through your actions.

    Conversely, imagine a world (oh god this is scary) where Peter Jackson was as bad a director as Uwe Boll. Instead of the LotR trilogy we have, instead it was the 3 worst movies ever made. The acting was awful, the sound was awful, the effects were awful, but the dialogue and story were the exact same.

    It would be a sin against humanity. This is why story isn't enough to carry the weight of something so heavy. It can only take it so far before it collapses.

  13. #153
    High Overlord Freeasacar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    People give Swtor alot of hate, but it's actually a good game. It just can't exist with wow. Too many people wouldnt play it because they looked at it as WoW's direct competition, and wow has sucked up most of the people that are interested in mmo's for the most part. Swtor on release was alot of fun. They put alot of work into it, and it showed. Disney could take it over and create the most stunning, incredible game ever created, and it still wouldn't have a shot.
    Hit the nail on the head right here. The Secret World recently also went f2p and cited Blizzard/Activision's monopoly on the MMO market as one of their biggest reasons for doing so. TERA Online also just today has confirmed they will be going f2p at the start of next month. Add to that GW2 which has always been f2p (b2p technically, but that's splitting hairs) and you can see every big MMO release within this decade has been forced into f2p just to put food on the table.

    Sure, blame EA. Blame any money hungry company you want. You're probably right about them being money hungry too. Just like Starfighter said though, even if they weren't, they could no longer run a p2p game in this market where Blizzard/Activision has such a huge monopoly. The only other noteworthy MMO that has still been able to cling on to p2p is Runescape - As of last year they now sell cash shop items as well as charging a sub for 99% of the game (which could only happen because they still manage to somehow retain a decade of subscribers). This is something that they surely learned would work from the Blizzard Store.

    P2p is dead folks. Just get used to it or choose another genre of games to spend your time playing.

  14. #154
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeasacar View Post
    P2p is dead folks. Just get used to it or choose another genre of games to spend your time playing.
    Except it's not. And that this doesn't mesh with your reason that WoW is the cause of everything.

    There are 3 games that launched with a sub, continue to have a sub, and have more or less grown since release.

    WoW, EVE, and Rift

    Those three games provide something unique, something engaging, and a combination of great service and/or something progressive against the rest of the market. Those three games alone are proof that subscriptions aren't dead. Sorry, not buying it.

    You want to know the real reason all these games go free to play? Because it is easier. It's easier to make money with less effort. Easier to have pop in purchases from many different people. It's smart and lazy business.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You aren't, but over time in a genre, other factors start to vastly outweigh whatever story is there. Especially if the story is maybe 5% of the overall package. There are several games that have 'no story' that are ravenously consumed by a mass of people. Look at Minecraft or Terraria. You pretty much are the story through your actions.

    Conversely, imagine a world (oh god this is scary) where Peter Jackson was as bad a director as Uwe Boll. Instead of the LotR trilogy we have, instead it was the 3 worst movies ever made. The acting was awful, the sound was awful, the effects were awful, but the dialogue and story were the exact same.

    It would be a sin against humanity. This is why story isn't enough to carry the weight of something so heavy. It can only take it so far before it collapses.
    True for most, but I also enjoy games with rubbish or no game-play if the story is enthralling enough such as Spec ops: The line or Dear Ester...as I've aged I do put story above everything else, didn't care much for it when I was in my early 20s though. I know Minecraft doesn't have a story but I would make that an exception due to it immersing me (adventure wise) into the game, i play that game to create my own adventure as you said my own story if you will.

    I do like your LOTR example but isn't that different? due to it being a movie and not a game your actions don't directly affect the outcome, you're just a viewer you can't make it more appealing by watching but you can by playing especially if you perceive yourself as the character. If Uwe Boll ever directed a film based on ‘Middle Earth’ I’ll end up topping myself.

    I’ll be honest I can’t actually think of a game that had amazing story but crap gameplay that I didn’t like, I can think of a few that are the opposite though (Crisis 2/COD)

    Then again you have games like Sonic no real story but good gameplay that I loved… at this point Kitty I’m just rambling. Obviously this is all just my opinion but I do see you point.

  16. #156
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toccs View Post
    *SNIP*
    The movie example is expressing the point that a great story on it's own does nothing. You might be more willing to sit through a game, because you are involved, but it doesn't make the game or the story any better. In this game's case, receiving elements of the story is mandated on things that some people really don't like. In this case, the voice acting for every single quest.

    If all you had was the story being cinematic/vo, it would have felt amazing and special. As it was, it got lost in the tedium. Imagine if while reading a book you had to do 20 pushups every other page. Not only will you start to hate the book and similarly the story, but you get exhausted. This is kinda a more appropriate explanation of the person saying that a 'Story MMO' will always fail.

    Unfortunately MMOs with a typical end game are only shooting themselves in the foot if the hinder your progress there. GW2 has more leeway to have a story, b/c there's no particular need to rush to the 'end'. The story wasn't integrated/presented well enough and I think that was a large problem.

  17. #157
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    The hate I have towards Disney, is immense! What good have they ever done? Hands down their all movies are the same shit with different covers.

    1. A girl in a situation where everything could be better. 2. A good dude in the same situation as the girl. 3. A bad dude in a good situation. Has hate/love relationship with the girl, and despites the good dude. 4. Shit hits the fan. 5. Bad dude no longer exists or isn't a problem. 6. The girl and the boy are together.

    What have they done, is Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. They have bought Lucasfilms, Pixar and other shit with the money they made from the same movie.
    Now they are doing more Star Wars. GG. Just like the newest Lion king what, 9? They will make and goddamn die trying to make money with things that were.
    Sequels all over the goddamn place, just to get parents to buy their kids some more films because "That's poca-muthaphukin-hontas mommy!"
    If there are funny hencemen in a movie(Timon&Bumba, Stitch and the rest of the group) there will be a moneymaking miniseries from that aswell, and also another series from their testicals, because kids love it. They love teletubbies aswell, repeat after repeat, that's fun.

    But I'm not talking about kids here, I'm talking about Star Wars and stuff like that. Shit that's made for adults. I'll bet my left ball that Star Wars will be utter shit. Shit I tell you!

    Disney Games. These games, the worst possible 2D, partially 3D platform jumping games, which have all ended up to the sales racket for 5 bucks. Remember that shit? Tarzan and Lion King? (Epic Mickey, exception) What will we have with SWToR? Oh lord I don't even want to think about it, because Disney makes money. They are even worse than Blizzard. Why is that? Because Blizzard is all about games, Disney is about every goddamn thing there is, because they buy everything with their money.
    It's like Wal-mart. Different things from A to Z, quality is good at it's best.


    Disney owns everything with the name Lucas on it but Lucas himself.
    Man that shit was close. Coffee was very close for coming out my my nostrils.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
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    3k gold right off the bat, about 5 silver a week later.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Toccs View Post
    The whole reason i play games is for the story its one of the most important factors to me and i can't be the only one, being the listener/reader should never be limited to books and TV taking that away from games would only dumb them down. SWTOR was never in trouble due to its story, in-fact its one of the strong points, stating that games will fail because they have a story is just stupid.
    I am in the same boat as you. Often for me the difference between liking a game and disliking a game is because of it's story. I mean I never could get into Rift (which is a really solid game) because for whatever reason I just can't get into the story. But I love swtor because I really enjoy the story aspect. But I am also one of those people who can watch the same cut scene over and over again... so that's probably weird of me.

    I definitely don't think swtor's issue has ever been the story. It's problems for me revolve around poor communication, and poor follow through. You can only tell someone "super awesome things are coming" and then disappoint them so many times before people lose faith. They give the perception (to me at least) that they are very out of touch with the people they want to play the game.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by The Handsome Stranger View Post
    As for SWTOR, I think its headed in the right direction. Getting rid of all the empty servers was a huge start, the server I play on is always hopping. If the game was dying, as some speculated, I doubt they would be selling a expansion. Hopefully the expansion is worth the 10 bucks.
    Thank you so much for posting this.
    My server is absolutely overflowing with activity. the game is fun, guilds are growing, our community is awesome.
    It's an east coast server, and at 4 AM there are STILL tons of people in fleet and on planets.

    People are enjoying the cartel items (adaptive armor ftw) and the server economy is booming.

    The game is far from dying. Just because you want it to die for whatever messed up reasons you have, does not make it so.

  20. #160
    You can't just take something away, they would face massive lawsuits. It's why Sony still has the rights to Spider-Man movies and Fox still has the X-Men and Fantastic Four. They signed legal contracts, and until those expire, Marvel/Disney has to sit there and wait. There are some rules though, if the companies don't make movies in a certain amount of years, the rights will go back to the owner. In other words, when it becomes unprofitable, the company who bought the rights can just stop wasting money making movies that don't work and give it back. In fact, that almost happened with Superman, except if they didn't make the new Man of Steel movie, DC/Warner would have lost the rights to Superman himself, all his original powers (invulnerability, leaping, super speed), his look, and his name. They would have been able to keep his flying and any other powers they made up for him, but nothing else.

    The only problem ToR had was they had the entire Star Wars universe to play with, and they limited the player races to humans or human-looking races. Why couldn't we play as Wookies?.. Why are the alien races limited to companions?..

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