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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    I think it's just a lack of enough same skilled players and not an interest problem. Finding 25people of the same skill level who will be content with eachother is a very hard task to complete on 1 realm.
    Many people would like to return to bigger raids. Feels more epic and waaaaaaaaaaay better loot distribution. Organising 25m vs 10m isn't hard at all and higher hardware requirements is also easily solved.
    I'm of the opinion that 25m is allready way more attractive than 10m but due to skill disparity it's just harder to make a raid but that's not something Blizzard can fix by giving more rewards.

    It's Blizzard's fault because they make fights so hard basically. If the guy at the bottom of the dps wouldn't be blocking your raid from a new kill, nobody would care that he's bad.
    It's what vanilla raiding was. Fill up a raid with 40people who had required FR and go have fun together not caring if someone did 500dps or 600dps.
    So do you want fight to be as simple as in vanilla,just so you can have ''fun'' in raids again? No thanks

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    How "bad" would it for the game if LFR never dropped twice the same item (DW aside) ? Did you do that projection internally ?
    If players could gear up that much faster, then they'd finish the content (and demand something new) that much faster...


    Wow.............. So doing LFR, not getting loot, getting frustrated with the game counts as content now? Nice.
    Doing LFR is one approach of doing raid content. Getting frustrated is just the side-effect of bad RNG luck, which Blizzard can't really control without trivializing the content for those whose only means of doing that raid is through LFR.

    That's what GC is trying to say there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    Year, it's more fun because you get the same loot for an easier raid.
    For each "Oh that makes it easy" thing that a person who's never done 10-man raiding is eager to point out, they ignore 2 massive drawbacks that 25-man raiding has as an advantage over 10's.
    Last edited by greyghost; 2013-01-02 at 12:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dexter44
    There is no patch for human stupidity
    Orihank is displeased.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    I think it's just a lack of enough same skilled players and not an interest problem. Finding 25people of the same skill level who will be content with eachother is a very hard task to complete on 1 realm.
    Well yes obviously it's easier to find 10 then it is to find 25. Still it was possible before, when people had to do 25 if they wanted the better loot.
    So i'm still convinced that interest is a big part of the equation. Given the same outcome (loot wise), it seems most people prefer doing 10 man over 25.

  4. #24
    Technically 25 man already gives more loot per raid member, and there's way less chance to get loot that no one needs compared to 10 man.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk Bantokar's Avatar
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    I love the new DK set, can´t wait to get it. A lot better than SSJ3 unicorn.

  6. #26
    Field Marshal tugnutt7's Avatar
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    All I can think of when I see the Warrior set is Shao-kahn from MK....

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinora View Post
    Well yes obviously it's easier to find 10 then it is to find 25. Still it was possible before, when people had to do 25 if they wanted the better loot.
    So i'm still convinced that interest is a big part of the equation. Given the same outcome (loot wise), it seems most people prefer doing 10 man over 25.
    Very true, it all comes down to the path of least resistance. In general (although there are always exceptions), as a species we are lazy and will do the minimum to achieve our goals. In this case, with equal rewards, it seems that 10 man raiding is the "easier" option.

    Take that as you will.

  8. #28
    LFR is the only way for me as a casual to get loot. After the 4th run with nodrops, i got so angry.. i destroyed my mouse
    OH WOW FOUR WHOLE RUNS.

    Every time I see a tweet from some idiot and think it's the dumbest thing I've ever read I see another that blows the previous out of the water.

  9. #29
    The last great DK PvE set was T10...

    Blizz hates DKs.

  10. #30
    I don't buy that GC raids, or even plays the game. Anyone have a link to his armory?

  11. #31
    It's pretty meh...

  12. #32
    Dreadlord Wayne25uk's Avatar
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    If they put the DK shoulders as the helmet and the DK helmet as the shoulders it would look much much better!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinora View Post
    Well yes obviously it's easier to find 10 then it is to find 25. Still it was possible before, when people had to do 25 if they wanted the better loot.
    So i'm still convinced that interest is a big part of the equation. Given the same outcome (loot wise), it seems most people prefer doing 10 man over 25.
    I wasn't talking about just finding people, talking about people of the same skill. The main annoyance in progress, even worse than RNG loot, is other raid members who are slacking. There are more hardcore gamers quiting WoW than there are joining which is what makes it harder each xpack to find people.
    My statement is if all players in a raid would have the same skill, everyone (with a good enough pc) would pick 25m for better character progression. Not only for the extra drop 25m has from each boss but the extra loot helps greatly on the big loot tables.
    Lei shi is a good example with sha-touched ranged/staff/dagger. In 10m you get 1 token drop and then 1 extra drop from 17 items. That's only 6% chance to see those weapons drop in 10m. While you possibly have to share with more people in 25m, you at least have a far greater chance of seeing more of the loot table drop and distribute to those you want.

    If we're talking about casual raiding then 10m is indeed probably what most people really prefer. Small group of friends having some fun.

    But if 25m will get even more advantage then they allready have, then many of 10m will feel pushed enough to try switching to 25m. It's easy to predict what horrible things will happen in the community if this is done. Many guilds falling apart, overabundance of tanks and raids filled with dps with huge performance difference making fights even harder.
    I suspect people complaining about 25m are those that don't like the format and for some reason keep doing it. Their only solution is play how they like and go 10m if that's what they prefer. If they only complain because their own guild is having problems finding enough people for their team, then they should start imagining how much worse it would become in WoW anno 2012 if all raiding guilds switched back to 25m.

  14. #34
    And we all know what would cause enough controversy : Higher ilvl from 25man raids compared to 10man raids. HELLS YEAH

  15. #35
    I hope blizzard would not give higher ilevel for doing 25 man raids. We've been down this road before (Wrath). It's really unfair to guilds and servers with small populations/members. I'm on a larger server and I've tried to get 25 mans going multiple times. We've had good progression nights then suddenly 2-3 people can't make it. Something comes up, it's impossible to keep a stable of raiders and rotate people weekly and not risk losing someone else. We all know there are plenty of raiders that only care about themselves and only raid for loot, not the challenge. Higher ilevel in 25s would just cause an influx of those types of people.

    I personally thing a good solution would be offering 15 man raids. Considering loot drops, a 15 man format would be completely doable as well. You could still have 2 tanks with a dps/3rd tank role if needed. 4 healers with 1 dps/healer offspec and 7 dps roles. I know this is likely futile and a waste of my time but I wanted to put it out there. 15 mans would likely work well for many guilds who can't quite push it to 25s but have too many viable raiders for 10s.

  16. #36
    These sets latley just are not even worth talking about. Bring back the gear from BT and sunwell, that artist had it.

    25s was a must, not even an option abck in the day whcih made guilds die fast. Now its all about the 10s since guilds can pug easily and not be in to bad of a shape, not to mention handing out loot. If they make 25s gear higher it will crumble more guilds then ever before

  17. #37
    The Patient Taiknee's Avatar
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    How do you feel about the players getting to 90 just now and not being able to play arena competitively due to being behind

    We want to reward players who keep playing. Too often in the past catch up was so easy that it trivialized accomplishments.
    IIRC, during the time "catch up was so easy" the game also had the highest number of subscribers...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiknee View Post
    IIRC, during the time "catch up was so easy" the game also had the highest number of subscribers...
    I wouldn't agree. it was time of Cataclysm and that's the time the drop happened. also, I have problems with gearing up, playing max 5hrs a week but I'd rather have it like this opposed to getting 1-90 in 5 days /played and getting geared in a week. if you can't gear your 10th alt, sorry, stick to 1-2 only.

    the most god awful thing that can happen is Blizzard catering to "too" casuals.

    and the quote up there about raid cauldrons, what? really? you can't organize 5 players in your guild to do some Herbalism work for 30ish min each? buy the darn Flasks and Potions at AH. there are plenty of people who would like to make money via alchemy which, except Living Steel, has no way to make money if you exclude Potions and Flasks.

    my 2 copper

  19. #39
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathiest's Avatar
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    Finally DK armor sucks for once!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiknee View Post
    IIRC, during the time "catch up was so easy" the game also had the highest number of subscribers...
    Your point? It's not like this was the reason. Wotlk came right after the glory days of Wow, TBC. So the subs rose a little more. And then decline set in.

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