1. #1

    What was the reason for not making Ulduar-style hardmodes again?

    They said something like "it would be hard to come up with unique ways to initiate hardmodes", right?
    Then why the hell are they able to implement achievement mechanics that would be the perfect way to start hardmodes? Those things are only there for the achievements and they really are exactly what they were looking for - unique ways to initiate hardmode fights.
    Why don't they see this?

  2. #2
    Sometimes they were awkwardly implemented and made little sense in the story of the instance. 'We're about to go fight Yogg'Saron, an Old God of unimaginable power; if we lose, Azeroth is lost... But you 4 keepers, you stay behind. We got this.'

    Sometimes it worked, but most of the time it just didn't make any sense. Also designing a fight with the hard mode in mind is more difficult, which could take time away from the overall instance. I'd rather have 2 bosses with the UI heroic mode toggle, than 1 boss with a clever in-game hard mode activation.

    As for your point about the achievements? Sure: every raid member using a Perky Pug is a really clever way to initiate hard mode.

  3. #3
    Not only is it for the reasons you stated, but based on feedback they felt that the method of initiating the hardmodes was not always intuitive enough. Not everybody pours over achievement requirements, or reads fan sites, or visits the official site. They did not have a particularly good way to inform players of what they needed to do (or not do) to activate the hardmodes in that fashion. At least not one that didn't come off as contrived and hamfisted, like an NPC standing at the door of the boss room spouting instructions. Not having this information, groups would be prone to either activating the hardmode accidentally or not having any idea what they needed to do to activate it at all.

    Sure, they could do every fight like Mimiron, where there is a big red button in the room. But then that is not much different than the toggle they have in place now.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2013-01-02 at 03:00 PM.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  4. #4
    You'll have to give an example, I'm not sure what you mean. Unless you mean something like completing "Sorry, Were You Looking for This?" would trigger Hardmode for Gara'jal?
    Garth Brooks convinced me it's not living if I stand outside the fire

  5. #5
    Protectors of the Endless isn't a test of reintroducing Hard Modes? This thread is complaining about the lack of something already in implementation? Doesn't look a very smart subject for me.

    Buu <= WHY I LOVE TO PLAY HUNTERS! => Pendleton

  6. #6
    Completely aside, but I do not see why everyone is so in love with the hardmode activation style from Ulduar. Most of the activation requirements were not anything special. Certainly nothing I would call unique. Not saying the UI toggle is particularly compelling. But people go on like the Ulduar style was SO much better, when really the only major advantage is that it was done on the fly.

    Flame Leviathan - Don't kill the towers (slight variation on "Leave the drakes alive" from Sartharion)
    XT - Start fight, DPS harder in one phase, restart fight with more difficulty
    Iron Council - Kill them in a different order (this was kinda cool, and Blizzard used it again this tier)
    Hodir - Kill him faster
    Thorim - Run through the hall faster (DPS faster, really)
    Freya - Leave the keepers up (Sartharion again)
    Mimiron - Push the button
    General Vezax - Ignore a main mechanic of the fight then kill the add
    Yogg - Tell the Keepers you don't need their help (Which when you think about it is just the inverse of the Sartharion mechanic)

    I will grant that some of the hardmode fights themselves were better than the current implementation where it is most just bigger numbers but the same mechanics. Many of the Ulduar fights changed significantly by activating the hardmode. But the activation itself wasn't really all that special.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  7. #7
    Hmm, do recall one reason was how the gear ended up. With items only coming from hardmodes the normal pieces became DE/vendor valued.

    Personally I loved the Ulduar HMs, mostly how funny they ended up sometimes. The guild I was in for example, they did the first 5-6 tries on mimirion by pushing the big red button... Let the Fight of Pure Hell commense! xD
    I was Once a Nab
    Then I rolled a Paladin
    Thats when I found out
    that I REALLY was a Nab

  8. #8
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    It would have been a lot more fun to do it that way.. but I prefer when they are gear/skill checks like XT was, because this way you need to make sure you are ready before you do it.

    Good example would be Elegon.. to trigger hard mode you'd have to.. let's say, kill 6 waves of orbs.

    As for why they changed it, I'm pretty sure the limited attempts in Icecrown Citadel and Trial of Crusader was why they didn't do it for TOC/ICC... not triggering hard mode on XT forced guilds to wipe on purpose to start over, etc.

    Plus not counting the amount of time you got nervous hoping nobody would talk to keepers.

  9. #9
    The introduction of VP upgrades allows for the possibility of semi-hard (or if you're already on hardmode, hard-plus) mode, where the item drops simply come already with the first VP upgrade applied. That way it wouldn't be a requirement for progression, just a bonus.
    Garth Brooks convinced me it's not living if I stand outside the fire

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    As for your point about the achievements? Sure: every raid member using a Perky Pug is a really clever way to initiate hard mode.
    Not every achievement is a fitting mechanic for what I mean - that should be obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    You'll have to give an example, I'm not sure what you mean. Unless you mean something like completing "Sorry, Were You Looking for This?" would trigger Hardmode for Gara'jal?
    Yes, I mean something like that.
    Or enough people striking WotE at a time causing the bosses to topple over and break the ground or something, leading to another phase.
    Or if you activate those candles at the Blade Lord encounter they set free some kind of energy, the Blade Lord goes crazy sending a giant whirlwind towards the raid carrying them to the top of the building initiating another phase.
    For Ambershaper the achievement is to build 8 puddles on top of each other. That could form a new add or something.

    I think these would be very fitting and not boring at all.
    As for it being not intuitive enough: There could be NPCs that tell you about stuff like this. I don't think it would be hard to get something like this to the playerbase. Most of the time only progress-oriented guilds would try these modes anyway, so that would be fine I guess.

    Protectors of the Endless is a test of re-introducing it, yes. And I hope that they continue to implement stuff like that.

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