what makes a larger raid harder is that there is actually a greater penalty for individual mistakes when content is actually hard. you can't reduce it down to the fact that 1 person is only 4% of a raid group as opposed to 10%. your argument only makes sense for EASY content.
talked to Daxx yesterday and they are doing 40m LFR only. no more pre making raids.
Inb4 : they do nothing
---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 03:34 AM ----------
Everyone gets a free coin roll on every boss kill on top of being able to roll the coins that they currently possess! MOAR GOLD
Here is my idea!!
10m gets 2 lockout per week -if you do 25m, it overwrites the lockout, 10m gets reset-
10m gear has 0/2 of item upgrade, at the end of every raid -final boss killed- the 10 people in the raid get 1 token (only on 10m) that token can be spent to free upgrade one piece of gear to 1/2 or 2/2 depending where it was at. So clear all 3 raids, get 3 upgrade tokens (gain up to 6 on heroic modes) which means 6-12 tokens per week if you full clear both resets.
25m gear has 2/2 of this upgrade already, and does not receive tokens, also they can only have 1 lockout per reset. Otherwise everything is the same as it is currently.
25man raiders will receive a vanity pet named "Special Snowflake". Each week (weekly cos we know u hate dailies bro) Special Snowflake will give you a quest to go and visit a Goblin named "E . Pean" you must do a /stroke emote on him to receive your free (although it wont be free cos ur raiding 25man bro and that shit's hard son) gear upgrade. The upgrade will not be random, you will be able to choose exactly what you want. If you eventually reach a point where E. Pean has no upgrades left for you you may select any 10 man raider from any server be teleported to your location so you can /spit on them and watch them cry.
As one guy wrote, personal responsibilty rises in 25 because you are holding back 24 people. It is more likely that 2-3 people will fail on HC mechanic that 1 on 10 man.
Seriously though, stopped forming/leading 25s in Wrath and nothing will make me go back. If Blizzard does introduce something that does, I'll just stop raiding and go full casual and just do LFR, pet battles, and pvp. Get a 2nd job too since it'll be a better waste of my time at that point.
10s have a much larger margin for error, especially in fights with spacial requirements. maybe if they redesigned the encounter maps so 10 mans deal with the same space issues that 25s content deals with will the two formats be balanced.
25s should be able to completely cap valor from raids and 10 mans not be able too, or 25s should reward elder charms, or have higher ilevel loot. something.
" I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"
What do you people have against 25mans IF YOUR NOT DOING THEM why would you care if they made a change to them just to make them more viable. Just still do 10mans if you have something against them.If they add more loot to keep the ratio the same with 10mans WHY WOULD YOU CARE your still getting the same chance's with loot. Also if you don't do them why would you want them to be removed? You don't do them why would you deprive some people the content they enjoy just becuase you don't like it and don't do it. All they should do is add more loot. Half of you saying the ilvl thing will be horrible it won't. There are alot of people out there with your mind set of "stepping into a 25man will kill me" won't do them no matter what they do to them and still do 10 mans. They should just add more loot or make seperate raids like rift. Have 25 man raids totally different from 10mans.
Honestly, this tweet could have been reworded as: We're thinking of giving 25m an incentive, but regardless of what it is, it will cause controversy.
I'll bet if they offered 10 more VP per boss in 25m mode, all raiders would rage out. The 25s would yell it isn't enough, the 10s would yell it's an unfair advantage.
As it is, many players disagree 25s are more difficult...at least if you don't focus on the individual mechanics so don't see any particular reason to reward players for simply turning up.
It is difficult to see what Blizzard will do because so much depends on what THEY are willing to do, what compromises they are willing to make to their own raid model.
It is easy, for example, to save 25s if they are willing to kill off 10s and return to the situation we had in LK.
Or Blizzard could try and adjust the reward structure so only a few people felt compelled to run 25s...but that would be compromising its own aim of having everyone raid their format of choice.
If that was Blizzards goal, they could simply try to ensure the logistics issue that deter the formation of 25s are addressed. But that wouldn't lead to a swift recovery
From what GC has said, it seems the idea of greater rewards - more loot, pre-upgraded loot, higher iLevel loot, etc - isn't going to happen. That's probably unsurprising.
Exclusive content also seems unlikely given its cost to develop and their own model. Will they change that model and accept the loss in 10s and the return of the problems the previous model had? Unlikely but not impossible - it depends on how important they judge 25 man raids to be.
GC said controversial....maybe we'll see 25s killed off entirely? Seems unlikely as they'll probably want to keep LFR as 25 and if you o that, and have the mechanics in place due to 10s, there's little point not keeping 25s.
Shared lockouts?Doable....but issues with looting and pressure on certain roles. The former can be addressed, the latter? Maybe only allow them to raid with a tank/heal spec once per boss?
Split the achievements? It seems a popular choice but I don't personally see much benefit to it.
Increased VP rewards so 25s can cap from 1 or 2 raids?Seems much more plausible but controversial? Only to the degree this should be the case already as VP reward are, IMO anyway, too low for the effort involved.
It'll be interesting to see what Blizzards idea is.
-A death in 10 man is more costly than a death in 25 man, because you have 1 combat rez (10% of the raid) compared to 3 (12% of the raid) in 25 man
-There are all kinds of mechanics where a single person can wipe the raid by screwing up a mechanic. Defile is the classic example. These types of mechanics are FAR more punishing on 25 man, because it is a lot easier to have 10 people execute a raid wiping mechanic than 25, and it's 2.5 times more likely that you will have someone lag or DC or something (probably more like 5 times more likely with the greater system drain of 25 mans) causing a wipe to that type of mechanic
-Any mechanic where you need to be spread X yards apart to avoid chaining/splashing damage is far harder in 25 man than 10 man because you are fitting 2.5 times as many people in the same amount of space leaving less room for error
-10 mans are more prone to RNG based difficulty where X number of players can get targeted with something. An example would be Sinestra and cutters; if you only have 2 healers and they both get targeted, it is almost unrecoverable (which is why they changed that mechanic on 10 man); if you have 6 healers and 2 get targeted, the other 4 can pick it up.
Both of the previous tier end bosses (Rag and Spine/Madness) were far far easier on 10 man than 25 man, having done the 25 man versions, 10 man felt like a joke. 25 mans may have had the first kills and more high ranking kills (just like there are currently more 25 man HM Sha kills than 10 man), but that is honestly caused by the fact that the majority of hardcore raiders prefer 25 man guilds, and top 25 man guilds tend to have more talented players overall than top 10 man guilds. I have not done any T14 10 mans, but having done every boss in T11, T12 and T13 on heroic in both 10 and 25 - the only fights you could argue are harder in 10 man were Hagara and Sinestra (until the healer target fix and until you had the DPS to 3 heal it). Every other fight was noticeably more difficult in 25 man.