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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Remove it entirely please! Go to a single raid size and focus all your raid development time on making excellent bosses, tuned for a single raid size, rather than re-tuning for multiple raid sizes as well as difficulties.

    Ideally I'd love to go to 15 man raids, which scales up perfectly from 5 mans (1 tank 1 healer 3 DPS - 3 tanks 3 healers 9 DPS), but that probably won't happen. So just remove 25 mans and let's all go 10 man.

    Blizzard are just giving themselves way too much work trying to cater to a very, VERY tiny section of the playerbase. I mean, hell, the total number of raiders is a tiny, insignificant amount as it is... the number of 25 man raiders is even smaller.
    I would hate to see 25man removed. And so would a lot of others. I will go so far and say that the WoW pve "scene" will die out entirely if they remove 25 man Very selfish suggestion you bring to the table buddy, I sense that you are a 10man raider? What would all the 25man raiders do if blizzard removed 25man raiding? See? Yeah, bet you do, if you don't, you are just a giant noob douche... True story.

  2. #42
    Forcing people into 25mans it fucking stupid, some people cant raid 25mans/dont have the guild for 25mans/dont have the money to constantly sever hop to get a 25man guild.

    Making 25man drop more/better loot is just plain retarded and show how little ghostcrawler actually cares about the "community"

    Sick of "25man is better HURDUR" shit
    Seriously.

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=Gritalian;19667114]I honestly can't figure out what it would be. Every time someone has suggested higher leveled gear or more gear drops they've responded with how 25m, for the most part, is more taxing on officers than the raid itself, that its harder to recruit and more people management, and that they didn't want to reward the whole raid for the added work for a few./QUOTE]

    And yet they took out cauldrons.

  4. #44
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Scrap 25 & 10 Man and make 15 Man Raids.

    I can only dream ...

  5. #45
    Backing up from favoring 10man would be a disaster for Blizzard. Them saying it's controversial i'm guessing it might be the end of 25man raiding.

  6. #46
    The fix is 1-3 ilvls higher gear from 25man, not enough to make a real-difference but enough to motivate the obsessive compulsive people to stick to 25 man

  7. #47
    It won't have anything to do with raid size as that would screw up so many guilds in the early-mid portion of an xpac. If we ever see a change of raid size it will be announced prior to the end of an expansion that would go live at the beginning of the new one.

    I'd venture a guess that they're going to allow 25s to upgrade items a 3rd time or come partially upgraded already.

  8. #48
    the funny thing is if they provide more loot, better ilvl whatever to the whole 25man raid they do give it to all people but in my opinion the only people who deserve something are the raid leads and officers who manage it.
    but it seems all 25man raiders just join the "we want some more profit from it" as they are who will get something and not get "punished" like the 10 man raiders
    for me 25man is history and I'm not a fan from it. to much trouble to manage it. that is nowadays the main problem. it's also hard to run a 10man raid for example if you need to replace somebody and the whole server is like a ghost town or all good players are of market. IMO they should focus on this issues and on the lfr loot issues and not try to find a solution for a problem that imo does not exist and in the end will change nothing. people who don't like 25 man won't join it even if they get some profit from it. only those who already play 25man will get some more advantage.

    solution I would prefer is 15man raid. one size and done with it.

    25man raids will die like dinosaurs anyway you will see it. people leave the game and can't be replaced. people who still play run a 10 man. this it what happens today. this is what will not change in any way no matter how much you will buff 25man raids except you make it super easy with to much loot and that will be the end of serious wow raiding.

  9. #49
    I hope it's the removal os 25men

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Oh yeah, no problems at all. Unless you were someone that hated 25s for any reason and preferred 10s. Then you were either left with inferior gear, or forced into a format you did not like. They can't go back to that model at this point, unless they remove 10s all together. That is extremely unlikely to happen, as players have pretty much overwhelmingly demonstrated that they prefer 10s.
    10man was way easier back in wotlk (and still is now, I have tried both modes many times this tier, you don't have to question me if you only raid 10man, cause I basicly know more about it than you then... Sorry it's the truth.), it was basicly the pug-mode or alt-raid. So if you liked 10man way better back then, you prefered the secondbest thing (25man being the best/hardest/most prestige, back then, and still now, though some 10man raiders would claim the opposite). The reason why "most players prefer 10man now" is that no one can be arsed to find 30 people for a 25man roster when they start a new raiding guild, that and many people think that hardcore raiders are robots who play 24/7 and cant imagine themselfs to raid/play like that, but truth is that "hardcore raiders" don't even play much more than your average casual player, many hardcore raiders are also hardcore raidloggers, so you hardly even see them ingame outside of raids. Instead people can find 12 reliable raiders to make a roster and start digging into the secondbest/hardest content being 10man raids.
    Blizzard knows that their game will go a looooot down in everything if they don't do something positive to 25man raiders soon, why else do you think they even mention it like that. You can question what I said but at the end of the day you will see that I am right...
    Last edited by JuicedawgYO; 2013-01-02 at 04:22 PM.

  11. #51
    Perhaps they will make 25m drop more loot, not better loot, just more loot.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Forcing people into 25mans it fucking stupid, some people cant raid 25mans/dont have the guild for 25mans/dont have the money to constantly sever hop to get a 25man guild.

    Making 25man drop more/better loot is just plain retarded and show how little ghostcrawler actually cares about the "community"

    Sick of "25man is better HURDUR" shit
    Seriously.
    Forcing people into 25 mans is stupid to you but current system forcing people into 10 man isn't?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    Forcing people into 25 mans is stupid to you but current system forcing people into 10 man isn't?
    That is how the minds of teenagers works, huge hypocrits, very special butterflys. You will most likely not make him understand your point, just saying.

  14. #54
    If you look at it that its a logistical problem theres most likely only a few solutions to make it "easier" and more accesible.
    I believe a controversial change could be, sry 25 man raiders but make the raids less deadly and more forgiving in 25 mans. Not like raid finder style but somewhere a bit lower than it is atm.
    This could also mean to make the 25 man encounters require less players to deal with mechanics like garalons pheromones.
    Another idea would be some hp buff in 25 man to make place for more mistakes or something or allow more combat resses.
    Lastly, removing seperate lockouts for NORMAL MODES. keep heroic modes shared though, no reason to make em not share as i can only hear the ammount of must do 25 and 10 to be competitive.

    Thoose would in my mind be controversial but not game breaking to 10 mans, and as they got 25 hc i dont see the real drawbacks of this. Also it would reintroduce a thing i really miss from wotlk which was having both 25 and 10 player raids to do. Also allowing for more pugging would definently be a + in my book, afterall if you want a challenge isnt it heroic modes you go to and not normal modes?

    PS: im not suggesting making 25 man normal mode a joke, b ut if logistics is the problem then its about helping them with the extra ammount of logistics which sry to say it but extra gear wont help with.

  15. #55
    I'm going to throw it out there, my guess is that the idea is to make 25-man gear already at a 1/2-upgrade state.

    That way there is a benefit to gearing up from 25, but it doesn't completely decimate 10.

  16. #56
    Mechagnome
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    I could see something like the conquest cap for Rbg's. 25 man raids getting a second higher cap on valor that is only available through 25 raiding allowing them upgrade their gear slightly faster but not giving them a game breaking advantage.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ohshift View Post
    I hope it's the removal os 25men
    it wont be, too many of the top guilds raid 25man.

    there maybe more 10mans but they are all worse/less hardcore than 25's with the exception of paragon, it'll be controversial but i dont think they will destory 10's or 25's that makes little sense.

  18. #58
    Some 10 mans this tier are harder than 25 mans. I could name a few, Shek'zeer HC is probably harder on 10 man, so is Elegon perhaps. Garajal too maybe. The 10 v 25 disparity isn't as big as it was during DS and it's certainly not faceroll: went into MSV (as a casual guild run) and got our asses handed to us by the heroic modes because we were using a full melee setup with 3 Mistweavers.

  19. #59
    as a side note, higher ilvl rewards is just not a solution, unless they make 25 man raids puggable and heroic ilvls equal

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    They can't make 25 man too attractive now, or a lot of players will be very upset. It's easy to go from 25 to 10, but from 10 to 25 is a nearly impossible task, especially if half the 10 man guilds are trying to do so all at the same time.
    This is exactly true, if they mess this up, they're going to have a huge upheaval in the raiding game on their hands.

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