I dont think higher ilvl is going to happen, Blizzard will be shooting themselves in the foot if they do that. I have a feeling its going to be something like 25 man only special mounts, achievements, etc.
After reading some more, I wouldn't be surprised if they offered an NPC at zone in that supplied consumables (food, flasks, pots) that were only active in 25m setting. Would be a time saver for the 25m raid without providing an "edge" (assuming the buffs were the same as farmable ones for 10s), and having it set to 25m only would prevent 10s from zoning in on 25, grabbing buffs, then going to 10s and raiding.
Also maybe a mass summon, since it seems like EVERYONE is late/afk at the start of our raids. Fuckers.
20k and counting...Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
It has to be something that doesn't affect neither 10man or 25man, progression wise.
Better ilvl, no. That will kill 10man.
Better drops, no. I mean, that's already happening, 2/10 vs 6/25, 25man has a +20% better drop ratio than 10man. It also has the advantage of not wasting loot (more class diversity).
Better vanity drop chance (mounts / pets), maybe. Not gamebreaking and somewhat usefull.
Better VP reward, maybe. Not really a solution but, why not?, all know that 25s are logistically harder than 10s.}
Exotic Bag of Goods, maybe. A raid version of "Small Bag of Goods" (dropped by rares on MoP), with some exotic rewards.
Different lockouts, maybe.
I don't know. The problem is that some people overgrown the game. Every high-end guild has a wide rooster where they can blind-pick people and still perform as they regulary do. Casuals guilds don't and spending time trying to gather good players is far away from being fun, that's why most don't do that.
TL;DR. Casuals make 25s hard to sustain. Right now, 99% of WoW player base is (or is becoming) casual.
Last edited by DungeonMaster; 2013-01-02 at 05:49 PM.
Meh, I personally don't feel there is any need to further incentivize a format that doesn't seem popular enough to stand on its own merit. But, since this is a speculation thread, let's look at the loot tables and why I would not be betting on higher iLvL as the 25m perk.
Depending on your raid format, there is the following:
You have LFR that already gives: 476/483
You have normal that gives: 489/496
You have heroic that gives: 502/509
There is a 7 iLvL bump from MSV to HoF/ToES, but there is a 13 iLvL bump from LFR to Normal and Normal to Heroic.
If you added another 13 iLvL bump to account for a 10m vs 25m, then you would wind up with:
With that said, in order for 25's to fairly offer higher iLvL than their 10m counterparts, then they have to be deliberately made harder than 10m and not just in terms of the logistics involved.
Now, while there are undoubtedly many pro-25 people out there ready to go "HURR BUT 10M ARE ALREADY EASIER THAN 25M LOL!" there are just as many others that would argue that while there are pros and cons to both during the actual raids making certain fights easier on one or the other, the only thing that can always be said that is much harder on 25m is what happens before you even set foot into the raid:
The logistics of herding 25 cats instead of 10
But as that is a burden on the raid leaders/officers, and not the rank and file people that just log on in time to raid, the only way to fairly reward everyone with higher iLvL is to make the actual fights legitimately and clearly more difficult on 25's compared to 10's.
But, that is not how Blizz has been approaching the two raid formats ever since 4.0, and while they can always revert a design philosophy if deemed necessary, it just seems strange they would abandon it all and revert back to Wrath era balancing just to preserve 25m like it some kind of sacred cow.
So, naw, I don't see a flat higher iLvL from 25's unless they completely rebalance 25m vs 10m modes.
Last edited by Deathgoose; 2013-01-02 at 05:46 PM.
Calling it now, double lockouts for 25 man each reset. Afaik this was implemented in Korea for older content, clearly it was something they wanted "tested". I doubt it would be higher ilvl items, they wanted to remove the bloat from loot tables when they merged difficulties.
I was implying that it was difficult because without a druid tank with that talent, and without a disc priest and a resto druid, you probably weren't going to kill that boss without getting a few more weeks worth of gear. 10 mans only had the issue due to limited rosters, 25 mans probably didn't even notice it.
Attenuation is ridiculously easy to avoid, and I don't see what number of players has to do with anything, since there's no collision in WoW. Everyone simply has to avoid the bright yellow circles, there's literally no difference between the two.The 3 combat resses don't mean shit when the platforms for everything are crowded with people trying to avoid AoE.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on MMO-champion. Cast HR on a melee group of 7-8, or a melee group of 3-4?Resto Shaman with mastery are worthless in 25 man since people are not stacked up. Bosses like Windlord and the Vizier are a nightmare.
So which is it, are you so, umm, casual that 3 CRs are not enough to deal with attenuation, or a badass heroic raider?Most of the people that tried going 25 man were good as well. Most of us are breezing through 10 man now with 7-8 heroic kills. I got the Will of the Emperor cutting edge over 2 weeks ago. 10 man are easy mode.
I'll grant that some fights are really badly balanced for the two raid sizes. Will of the Emperor is much harder on 25 because adds have both double health AND there's twice the number of adds.
But my point still stands - 25-mans allow for greater mechanical variety, but they're undertuned because the reality in almost every guild is that a good third of the DPS range from subpar to incompetent.
---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 05:50 PM ----------
When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
"Realm First 10man..."
"Realm First 25man..."
Now that's controversial.
The majority of the Raids are 10M. Check.
The majority of the playerbase complains for any reason without reason. Check.
The majority of the playerbase that Raids, does so in 10M. Check
Ergo the majority of the Raid complaints are from 10M raiders, for any reason, without reason.
Higher Ilvl for 25s (10s cry)
More drops for 25s (10s cry)
1/2 Upgraded gear (10s cry)
See a pattern? yeah, it's called Any Buff to your mode is a Nerf to my mode.
10M players aren't willing to give anything up. The sooner Blizzard sees thru that, the sooner they'll be able to think of something disregarding the idiotic bantering of how 10M always loses even though it's winning.
One would think that WANTING to do 25-man (or 10-man for that matter) would be incentive enough to do it...but no.
99% of raiders do normals because they're required. If they weren't plenty of people wouldn't touch them. So there aren't MANY more "elite, progression-minded 10 man guilds" now than there were in TBC/Wrath?
Just saying things doesn't make them true, especially when it's obvious you just made some things up to sound good and support your point.