Ghostcrawler tweet about 25 man, let the speculation begin!

[Radalek]

Any news on 25men raiding and incentives for them? Numbers of guilds still dwindling, you mentioned a developer blog?

We have an idea, but it's a bit controversial so we're not ready to spring it on you yet.

Previous blue post on this subject mentioned that they are not happy with the state of 25 man raiding at the moment and that they are looking how to add new incentives for it. All in all I think we should brace for some big changes incoming. Field is yours, what do you think it will happen?

One more thing : THIS IS NOT 10 vs. 25 THREAD, LEAVE THAT OUT

[IpswichBlues]

controversial.... that's the key word. I am guessing its higher ilvl items again. Which would suck.

[McTurbo]

no chance of that.. just making the thread makes it about 25 vs 10

[Gurbz]

LOL I totally read that as "This is going to cause a shitstorm and we don't want to fuck up our vacation. Come back later"

One thing it probably isn't, given that he said it was going to be "controversial" is removing the shared lockout. Or higher iLvl gear. Those are things people are expecting and/or want to see.

Gonna be fun to see what they spring on us, if for no other reason than to laugh at the table-flipping.

[Relis]

I hope it's the ilvl change, in that 25man ilvl / stats are slightly higher. Been wanting them to go back to it for a while, I honestly hope they do.. I'm not wanting to start some bullshit 10 vs 25 man argument so that's all I will say

[Rhelyo]

controversial.... that's the key word. I am guessing its higher ilvl items again. Which would suck.

No way this happens imo.He already said that they wont allow the items to drop already "enchanted" with vp (ilvl increase) on 25 man.
So basically the revert to what wotlk was with 25 mans gear having higher stats than 10 is no way.

[Kisho]

Remove it entirely please! Go to a single raid size and focus all your raid development time on making excellent bosses, tuned for a single raid size, rather than re-tuning for multiple raid sizes as well as difficulties.

Ideally I'd love to go to 15 man raids, which scales up perfectly from 5 mans (1 tank 1 healer 3 DPS - 3 tanks 3 healers 9 DPS), but that probably won't happen. So just remove 25 mans and let's all go 10 man.

Blizzard are just giving themselves way too much work trying to cater to a very, VERY tiny section of the playerbase. I mean, hell, the total number of raiders is a tiny, insignificant amount as it is... the number of 25 man raiders is even smaller.

[Kreeb]

Seems blizzard listened to the commuity for once.

[Moohorn]

- More gear drops per person
- More battle resses
- Less personal accountability per person

The only (and admittedly big) drawback to 25 man raiding is gathering the people. Seeing as how groups are already able to do so, I don't really see why they need anything else to make it easier / more attractive.

[Radalek]

Remove it entirely please! Go to a single raid size and focus all your raid development time on making excellent bosses, tuned for a single raid size, rather than re-tuning for multiple raid sizes as well as difficulties.

Ideally I'd love to go to 15 man raids, which scales up perfectly from 5 mans (1 tank 1 healer 3 DPS - 3 tanks 3 healers 9 DPS), but that probably won't happen. So just remove 25 mans and let's all go 10 man.

Blizzard are just giving themselves way too much work trying to cater to a very, VERY tiny section of the playerbase. I mean, hell, the total number of raiders is a tiny, insignificant amount as it is... the number of 25 man raiders is even smaller.

They already stated they will not remove 25 man and blue posts suggest they will add things to make 25 man more popular, this thread is about what those things will be.

[det]

Seems blizzard listened to the commuity for once.

Define "community" and then explain where they didn't listen to whatever you define as the community. Do you mean the community that asked for flying mounts and flying in Azeroth or the community that demands flying mounts removed now? Or the community that whines how their alts cannot fly in Pandaria at 85 when the main is 90?

Or the raiding community? The 2 million LFraid community? The 100 000 in HMs? The 200 that beat all HMs? The people that bother to be on forums..and who cannot agree on anything?

[Buu]

Which controversy can it be? A minor contradiction on their philosophy? They did worst things as the Brawler's guild.
Or the Daily grind for reputation. Remember how when you had the reputation to buy the Justice point gear you had already better stuff long before?

[Djouga]

The ideal way to make 25 the only desired choice for every raider is to remove the heroic version of the 10m size. It's not like it was heroic before, so the best thing to do is to actively break every 10m guilds and merge them under a new banner, for 25m raids.

Why wouldn't anyone want that to happen?
-Break 3 or 4 10 man guilds where only 6-7 are actually decent to good players
-Make a reliable 25m roster where only the best players can raid

Everybody wins in this scenario.

[Nairobi]

The following post is my interpretation/wish, as a 25m HC raider:

I am hoping that it is simply pre-upgraded (either 1/2 or 2/2) items. Seems to be the most logical, as it would simply be a head start for 25mans, not an entire leg-up over 10s. 10man would still be able to get to the gear level of 25, and in the end everyone would be on an equal playing field.

That said, that idea makes far too much sense and is too balanced and fair to be considered controversial OR to be implemented by Blizz (given their current track record). Adding in extra loot drops would be pointless, as 25s are already swimming in loot for the most part. Less personal accountability via slacker tuned encounters would really water down 25mans, though we do have to carry a lot more slack to begin with. Unless it's something else out of left field, I'm not sure what they could change...

Personally, I'd also be on board for the one-size 15man train. 10man roster just isn't big enough to get the "community" feel that a 25 group has, but it is certainly far easier to field 15 good players than 25. It would also allow for better raid development (as stated prior) and better tuning of encoutners, I would believe. As a lover of 40mans in Vanilla, I was sad to see the "small" 25man raids at first, but the game has moved in that direction, and I feel that 15 would really be a sweet spot going forward. Add that to the list of "Things that should happen that won't"...

[Kralljin]

The ideal way to make 25 the only desired choice for every raider is to remove the heroic version of the 10m size. It's not like it was heroic before, so the best thing to do is to actively break every 10m guilds and merge them under a new banner, for 25m raids.

Why wouldn't anyone want that to happen?
-Break 3 or 4 10 man guilds where only 6-7 are actually decent to good players
-Make a reliable 25m roster where only the best players can raid

I could say the same thing about "Let's just remove 25Man Heroic and let 25man being the "farm mode" while 10 man is the "Progress mode"

[Celarent]

The only (and admittedly big) drawback to 25 man raiding is gathering the people.

To that end, scaling encounters for 20-25 players would definitely kick up some dust.

[Baalb]

If they change the ilvls in 25 man, then they must lower the difficulty of 10 man encounters. Remember how it was in Wotlk? 10 mans were a joke. By doing this, they will effectively kill 10 man guilds as 10 mans will be absolutely puggable and be something you do with your low geared alts. Indeed however the key word here is controversial, which suggests that it will have something to do with loot. I'm guessing though that they will settle on exclusive 25 man mounts, achievements and titles.

[Viggers]

i hope its something like 25man drops 6 pieces of loot instead of 5. would make 25 gear up slightly faster, but you can still achive full BiS raiding purely 10man.
also seperate 10 and 25 achivments maybe.

and one thing people always seem to forget it the BIGGEST drawback of raiding 25's - you need a decent computer! not everyone has access to this and so blizz cannot make 25 mandatory. i have a decent enough laptop, raid 25's, but every time i get to elegon P3, i just sit it out cos my laptop just stops until he is down.

[Saft]

There never was a problem in wotlk with the ilvl difference the problem was 25m all the sweet items while 10m got the leftover shit, toc and icc are perfect examples.
If higher ilvl from 25m is what Blizzard is planning I will welcome the chance.

[Gurbz]

make 25 the only desired choice for every raider

This is what they have specifically said multiple times that they do not want to do. I would be disappointed if we went back to how things were before Cata where either you raided 25s or you were penalized in some fashion. And that is coming from someone who prefers 25s.

It should be a choice of which format you prefer. An actual choice. Not choosing which one provides the most benefit. Right now it is not, as the benefits of 10-mans outweigh those of 25s. That is what Blizzard needs to fix. Personally I don't think they can, and will eventually have to give up and pick only one raid format to go with. But I look forward to seeing them try.