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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Blablubs12 View Post
    Why do you even bother discussing with Espe? It's so damn obvious that he has never played 25 man on a higher level nor do I think that he is part of a good 10 man raid.
    Yup, I remember seeing his armory 1-2 months ago and of couse he was in a terrible 10 man guild with no heroic kills at all. A person like this is still entitled to his opinion but seeing that he has no experience in 25 man and no experience in heroic at all (maybe he have now but not back then) so his opinion on what is harder has zero truth to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blablubs12 View Post
    As a conclusion, if an equally skilled 25 man and 10 man raid would race for a first kill, the 10 man raid should usually get it first even though both players play equally good. Still, it's not harder in 25 man for a specific player, it's just more likely that one player fails and therefore more unlikely that everything runs properly.
    I totally agree, because of the higher chance of failiure it will take longer to get a boss kill in 25 man even if its slightly easier when it comes to numbers (its usually not).

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    How can they know? And how did it kill 10 mans before when they didn't even exist before that at the first place. That's pure speculation. The only thing they can look at are the numbers on asian servers and 10 mans are not dying there and 25 mans are getting revitalized.
    They can know because they look back at TBC and LK when the Korean situation was essentially mirrored on NA and EU servers as well. We know what will happen because its been done before.

    Big rule? Players go after gear. Its the aim of the game and it makes players better in just about every single aspect from soloing to raiding. You put better gear somewhere, you can expect players will flock to it...even if they hate the mechanics involved.

    This is partially why the old model was removed. And its what Blizzard seems to want to avoid now. Vanity gear, pets, titles, etc are the same, albeit to a lesser degree.

    EJL

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    How can they know? And how did it kill 10 mans before when they didn't even exist before that at the first place. That's pure speculation. The only thing they can look at are the numbers on asian servers and 10 mans are not dying there and 25 mans are getting revitalized.
    10 men is "dying" on asian servers. I mean it's wotlk all over. They do 25 men, get all BiS with more ilvl from there than go 10 men and say it's faceroll. You see more 10 kills on wowprogress because it's easier with increased ilvl for the 25 counterpart, so they do get more kills there, but they are still doing a content with more gear then intended.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    10 men is "dying" on asian servers. I mean it's wotlk all over. They do 25 men, get all BiS with more ilvl from there than go 10 men and say it's faceroll. You see more 10 kills on wowprogress because it's easier with increased ilvl for the 25 counterpart, so they do get more kills there, but they are still doing a content with more gear then intended.
    If that is the case and they are running both modes how is 10 man dying lol? Maybe strict 10 man guilds are dying but who cares when you can do both.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    If that is the case and they are running both modes how is 10 man dying lol? Maybe strict 10 man guilds are dying but who cares when you can do both.
    so 25 man guilds dying is a big tragedy that has to be fixed, but 10 man guilds dying is "who cares"

    nice double standard there

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    10 men is "dying" on asian servers. I mean it's wotlk all over. They do 25 men, get all BiS with more ilvl from there than go 10 men and say it's faceroll. You see more 10 kills on wowprogress because it's easier with increased ilvl for the 25 counterpart, so they do get more kills there, but they are still doing a content with more gear then intended.
    here are two popular Asian realms:

    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/tw/crystalpine-stinger
    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/kr/azshara

    Almost 95% of top 100 guilds are dedicated 10man (not 10/25 as you mention, check second and third pages also). So I think 10man will stay 10man even if 25man drops that much better gear. Its like 95% of raiders here cba doing hard modes even though gear there is much better there. 25 man is harder in its organization ways so 10man will stick to 10man (probably) and 25man guilds will have a reason to go on and survive.

    ** Edit: Although all these things are just based on what I see there, was sort of surprised to see it myself. Not sure if same will happen here or not.
    Last edited by Marooned; 2013-01-07 at 09:47 PM.
    "Blizzard is not incompetent or stupid and they are not intentionally screwing you over"

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    more things to do in the area of gaming that you like wouldn't be a bad thing.
    True, which is why I welcome the pet battles. Something totally different from raid, yet still involved and fun. Not everyone will like it, but it appears to be something quick and simple to implement.

    Farming? Also fun...for a while. 16-20 encounters per days just to farm gets irritating.

    And there is plenty of opportunity for other pursuits...maybe explore the lore behind the Darkmoon Faire with a card game of some sort? Perfect the mounted combat mechanics (get rid of that delay!!!!)? Expand archaeology and fishing in a manner similar to cooking.

    Sure a lot of people argue that you do not have to grind reps and daylies, but if your a person who wants to give it your best in this hobby that you might consider a sport well then the position that daylies and repgrinding is optional is simply not valid.
    Yep. Dailies were about as optional as doing 2-4 raids a week in LK. Sure...you can get by without it, but you din' if you were truly serious. Still, at least the daily situation has eased off as reputation has been earned, but the emphasis on dailies remains, IMO, one of the biggest flaws of this Xpac. There is simply too much emphasis not on providing new content, but on stretching out he content we have. Something involved and interesting enough to last a week is now expected to provide content for months. It gets old.

    Personally i think raiders would probably rather for some time raid a new raid instance 2 times a week with their main than having to raid and do daylies rep grind. So 10/25 seperate lockout although controversial as stated above could be nice.
    Its very possible. But Blizzard don't seem to want players to deal with that burnout problem. Nor do they seem to want to deal with the balancing issues inherent in having multiple gearing speeds.

    I don't think either of these issues are insolvable. And in some ways, it would be nice to have the option to raid both formats again.

    But raiding twice a week simply burns out the player at least twice as fast. Which means Blizzard would need to push out new content even faster. AND either deal with the balance issues inherent with the "loot twice" model or put into place mechanics to prevent it (ie the LFR system becomes standard and guilds yell at the total loss of control over gearing).

    I think that - IF the problem lay with dailies - Blizzard could simply increase certain rewards (e.g. double VP rewards) so they weren't as much of an issue. But Blizzard put a lot of work into dailies and the story and while I don't agree that is necessarily the best mechanic for such a system, I do think it means Blizzard will want players to experience that content.

    As I said, the problems here aren't insurmountable...but I think players may not like the solutions.

    EJL

  8. #628
    Want a easy fix for 25 man raids...add a new form of currency.

    With every kill you get a X amount of tokens and after collecting a total of XX tokens (depends on the gear) you may buy any gear that drops from a boss.

  9. #629
    Mechagnome
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    Simple. Make only one number raids.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Want a easy fix for 25 man raids...add a new form of currency.

    With every kill you get a X amount of tokens and after collecting a total of XX tokens (depends on the gear) you may buy any gear that drops from a boss.
    Blizzard has said they will never remove the RNG element in raiding by allowing you to pick and choose loot. Next.
    My Paladin's Armory
    My Hunter's Armory
    These links are now broken. Ask Blizzard why.

  11. #631
    Stood in the Fire Confucius's Avatar
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    CRZ raiding (25 only or otherwise) will never happen as long as blizzard keeps charging people for server transfers. Why would they want to cut off part of their revenue stream? Not a big one but still and after all, they are in the game (sic!) to make money. Their primary objective is to cater to the largest segment of the player base, whatever it may be and try to maintain and grow it. They're not gonna intentionally piss of large amount of people hoping that they would change their play style or whatever just so that blizzard could make some minority segment slightly happier. To screw over 10m they would have to have some concrete data that majority of 10m would make a switch to 25 and 25 would become the "preferred" raid size among the players to justify the move. If they dont have that, they're not going to take a huge gamble like that. Because, frankly they don't have to.

  12. #632
    prolly different instances like it used to, and only 15man difficulty in 6.0

  13. #633
    In a perfect world..... for me that is, the new heroic only boss would only be on 25. Seeing as how that is unlikely, I would wager that they are going to make tier tokens have a random chance to drop off of extra bosses.

  14. #634
    Pandaren Monk Slummish's Avatar
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    I don't know why they don't just provide 3x more loot for 25man raids and call it a day.

  15. #635
    Why are 25's bitching?

    There is always enough incentive by them getting A LOT more loot, them seeing everything on the loot table because SO MUCH MORE drops, having people geared more QUICKLY, thus in the long run making encounters easier since they gear for them faster.

    25's don't need anymore crap. This is stupid.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssion View Post
    Why are 25's bitching?

    There is always enough incentive by them getting A LOT more loot, them seeing everything on the loot table because SO MUCH MORE drops, having people geared more QUICKLY, thus in the long run making encounters easier since they gear for them faster.

    25's don't need anymore crap. This is stupid.
    Define a lot more? You kill a boss in 10 man you get 2 pieces of loot, you kill it in 25 man you get 5. Same amount of loot per person. There's extra piece of loot in 25 man heroic since developers stated it's more complex and harder to manage so it's a small reward. It's not a lot more.

  17. #637
    High Overlord Vexxie's Avatar
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    Tears will come. Oh yes, I've got my care cup ready for the flood.

    25 mans need more of an incentive. I found it astonishing in another thread poll at the overwhelming number of people that play in 10 man guilds that want to play in 25 mans. Something needs to be done and a 'possible' solution is right around the corner. I really hope it isn't underwhelming.
    Wildstar - <Eugenic>
    www.eugenic-guild.eu

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't know why they don't just provide 3x more loot for 25man raids and call it a day.
    Ppl already got most the gear they need say 10man or 25man, quantity doesn't matter quality matters.
    "Blizzard is not incompetent or stupid and they are not intentionally screwing you over"

  19. #639
    i still hope we get 1 raid size


    all the way for 15player raids!

    wont happend saddly.. i think we are going to get an ugly solution sadly ^^

  20. #640
    High Overlord Vexxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessrouge View Post
    i still hope we get 1 raid size


    all the way for 20player raids!
    Fixed - If there were to be one size that fits in the middle, 20man would be it. Wouldn't mind, wouldn't like but meh.
    Wildstar - <Eugenic>
    www.eugenic-guild.eu

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