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  1. #1

    So whose decision is worse?

    Thinking about this purge of Dalaran... and the purge of Stratholme....

    You have:
    1. A leader that feels betrayed time and again by the horde.
    2. A leader that feels he must protect those who are not infected (other cities) by an incurable plague.

    I never felt that purging Stratholme was a bad deed. What is better? To let every person transform into the undead and feed upon those who have not yet transformed? Or do what Arthas did? There wasn't much of a choice imo.

    Ofcourse we have the Runeblade Frostmourne to blame for the change in Arthas. But it started with this....

  2. #2
    Brewmaster
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    No decision is worse since they are both fine.

    But if we have to compare it to horde's crimes i'd say Arthas was a bit harsher than Jaina since the latter didnt actually commit any crime nor she killed any innocent.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Lostwood's Avatar
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    The purge at Stratholme was necessary and unavoidable. I'm not sure if that was the case in Dalaran.

    Stratholme was far more gruesome though.
    Last edited by Lostwood; 2013-01-02 at 04:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Statholme may or may not have been necessary, but if Arthas truly believed in what he was doing, his Paladin powers wouldn't have weakened.
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  5. #5
    Mechagnome Mear's Avatar
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    Arthas thingy maybe was wrong but was something that was needed, but then again it could prbly been handled better, not really judging him from that act.
    The whole Jaina thing, I don't see here even fit to lead Kirin tor, atleast not now, to emotional. And its not helping that she another emotional unstable person at her side, Veressa. Anyway I think she should not be the one making choices same with with Veressa. I wonder what the rest of the councils thoughts are about the whole thing. (But I like how the story progressing and such and to like that I dislike her)

  6. #6
    Jaina by far.

    Arthas new that these people would turn into the undead very shortly and Malganis was there and rushing to turn as many as he could into undead. At the time there was no known cure there was nothing known about the plagues real abilities or a way to cure it.

    The time frame given was very short these people did not have long. Arthas did the only thing he could think of. Jaina snapped and wanted these people out. She had a choice she chose to take the hard road.

    Arthas was forced to take the hard road.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    The purge at Stratholme was necessary and unavoidable.
    I always thought this too. It HAD to be done. I could never believe that Uther just left someone else, who was barely more than a kid with a sword, to burden the entire responsibility himself, so I always felt Uther was partially responsible for Arthas' fall. It HAD to be done, but Uther didnt want the blood on his own hands.

    TBH, I'm with Jaina on the expulsion of the Sunreavers as well. The bell was stolen with the help of a Sunreaver "spy", the attack on Theramore was aided by ANOTHER Sunreaver "spy". They should have got their shit together and investigated/punished anyone responsible themselves long before Jaina decided removing them all was the best idea.

    So I'd say the two bad decisions are...

    1) Uther leaving a a young adult to murder hundreds of his own people and NOT think it's going to effect him badly in the long run.

    2) Aethas deciding to not investigate his own faction to root out any spys who would betray them.. and then not leaving peacefully and deciding to stay and fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Jaina snapped and wanted these people out. She had a choice she chose to take the hard road.
    She did say they could leave peacefully. One faction was obviously using Dalaran's resources to give strong military advantages to the Horde. If Sunreavers weren't policing their own, I don't get what other choice she had?
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2013-01-02 at 04:39 PM.

  8. #8
    killing every man, women and child, or putting some sunreavers to prision?...hmmm hard choice , really.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Jaina by far.

    Arthas new that these people would turn into the undead very shortly and Malganis was there and rushing to turn as many as he could into undead. At the time there was no known cure there was nothing known about the plagues real abilities or a way to cure it.

    The time frame given was very short these people did not have long. Arthas did the only thing he could think of. Jaina snapped and wanted these people out. She had a choice she chose to take the hard road.

    Arthas was forced to take the hard road.
    Yeah... I pretty much support this side.

    To be honest, I think the entire story of the destruction of her city and her purging of Dalaran... Unbelievable. It's just so incredibly silly. The Horde had no good reason for the attack (Levelling a city for a single spy? Can you imagine what would happen if actual, real countries on Earth would do that sort of stuff?), the (guilty) Sunreavers had absolutely no reason to go bomb-tossing, and... Well; it's simply a poorly written narrative, if you ask me.
    Jaina then doing something immensely silly isn't surprising if you consider that the entire story is silly.

  10. #10
    Slightly off topic... I wonder why the Culling was done outside, yet the instance itself is pitch black, even in daylight. Is there some lore somewhere that explains the new roof on the city?

    Also, in the face of pending events, I don't envy Arthas or Jaina for thier position or their choices. They were difficult decisions to make and had to be carried out swiftly and without remorse. No one should ever have to make that kind of choice. But, it is what it is.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I always thought this too. It HAD to be done. I could never believe that Uther just left someone else, who was barely more than a kid with a sword, to burden the entire responsibility himself, so I always felt Uther was partially responsible for Arthas' fall. It HAD to be done, but Uther didnt want the blood on his own hands.
    I always thought that Arthas wasn't responsible for his own fall. All the things he did were good ideas (since the alternatives available was to basically do nothing and just sit there with his thumb up his ass while his people died to an incruable, ever-spreading plague), and every step of his way he was abandoned by more and more allies, until the point where he picked up frostmourne and was finally screwed. Uther, Jaina, and his father are all directly responsible for his fall; especially Uther, who should've been the one to do many of the things Arthas ended up having to do all on his own.

    But that's neither here nor there at this point... anyway, Jaina's actions aren't even in the same league as Arthas'.
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  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    Both were technically right calls, though I feel Jaina could have handled her deed much better and that she did have alternatives she chose not to use. Silver Covenant goons barge in your home, accuse you of crimes you had no part in, tell you they're confiscating your possessions and taking you and your friends to prison indefinitely. Did they think there would be no resistance? Also, it's a city of mages, so I think Jaina and her forces could have just placed anyone resisting arrest in a block of ice like she did with Aethas rather than outright kill them in their confusion. She had to do something about the Sunreavers, since one or two of them were indeed aiding the Horde and she would have no idea who those were, but what she ended up doing and how she executed it was clearly driven more by her riled up emotions than cold logic.

    Arthas may have been emotional about his decision too, but then again, what were his options? You have a city tainted with plaguefied food supplies, therefore anyone could turn into a hostile in a matter of moments, and to top it the enemy forces are there personally speeding the process up and giving your troops an organized enemy to deal with. I'd say it was impossible to set up a leak-proof quarantine ring Mal'ganis wouldn't have broken soon enough. Arthas made the right call. It was only after Stratholme, where he started making wrong calls.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    The purge at Stratholme was necessary and unavoidable. I'm not sure if that was the case in Dalaran.

    Stratholme was far more gruesome though.
    And coldhearted, let's be fair.
    It was necessary, but it was also butchery. They couldn't fight back in any way, at least the sunreavers were capable of fighting.
    I'm not sure that it makes what Arthas did was more or less evil, but let's count all the chips.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Ofcourse we have the Runeblade Frostmourne to blame for the change in Arthas. But it started with this....
    The culling happened before Arthas had Frostmourne. It was a tough decision that he made, and believed in. Uther did not agree, which is why he left and had no part in it.
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  15. #15
    Culling of Stratholme was a very difficult decision for Arthas to make. Everyone was infected as was going to die no matter what. Being slain by Arthas meant they wouldn't be damned as a soul trapped in a rotting husk of undeath, which is what a plague death was. Arthas' action was the lesser of two evils; in a world where we know souls exist and are tangible, what Arthas did was a *good* thing, but he couldn't save them all, he couldn't even save most of them from undeath. Uther thought they could be cured, but that simply wasn't the case. There was no cure and there was no time either.

    What Jaina is doing is punitive action. She's doing a dragnet of the Sunreavers to find out who was responsible for the betrayal. Any who resist arrest were killed. It's not even a purge, it's a police action. If she wanted to slaughter every blood elf in the city she would've done so.

  16. #16
    The problem with the Culling of Stratholme was that Arthas called for the death of every person in the city because they MIGHT be infected. This wasn't shown very well in the CoT instance. Actually it wasn't shown at all. But he killed every man, woman, and child in the city, for no reason other than there was a chance that they might come back as undead. On top of that, they were civilians with no chance of defending themselves getting cut down by trained soldiers of their own government. THAT was the part that Uther and Jaina objected to, and what made his decision so terrible. There were better ways to accomplish the same goal.

    In the Purge of Dalaran, at least Jaina only had us attack those who were actively resisting. Everyone else was imprisoned but not harmed. Still not morally perfect, but not comparable in any way to the Culling of Stratholme.
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  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    All that you really need to know to compare these two events is to examine the leaders actions in them;

    - If a blood elf approached Jaina, she teleported them into Violet Hold. Regardless of sex or age.

    - If a human approached Arthas during the Culling, he killed them. Regardless of sex or age.
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  18. #18
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    All that you really need to know to compare these two events is to examine the leaders actions in them;

    - If a blood elf approached Jaina, she teleported them into Violet Hold. Regardless of sex or age.

    - If a human approached Arthas during the Culling, he killed them. Regardless of sex or age.
    And if Vereesa found a blood elf, she would stab them in the back and then tell Jaina is was self defense.

    Seriously, i want to stab that bitch in the face.. with a spoon.
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  19. #19
    Epic! MickM's Avatar
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    Stratholme had to be done, but not like the way it went by... People could have been contained and saved. And Jaina and Uther could've helped...

    Dalaran is highly understandible. The treason of the Sunreavers is a high crime. They're supposed to be neutral. By aiding in this sneaky theft, they've alligned themselves with the moron Garrosh. For that, they must be banished from the city.
    I guess it could've gone a bit more passive, but then they shouldn't have alligned themselves with murderers of Theramore...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by HavokFURY View Post
    The culling happened before Arthas had Frostmourne. It was a tough decision that he made, and believed in. Uther did not agree, which is why he left and had no part in it.
    I never said that he had the runeblade before the culling. I said that when he got it, THEN he god "mad". BUt it started all by the culling imo.

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